craig at optimus.com
Sat Sep 3 22:42:19 BST 2011
No offense taken at all David. In a discussion like this I was assuming you and I were representing both factions in this discussion, not really speaking to each other directly. There are many on the west coast so deeply ingrained in their daily activities that they have a hard time imagining that people all over the world do color correction in a variety of environments.
I appreciate your elaboration and honesty for sure, but I will ask again,
If a CDL is really optional information that contains only a fraction of what we need to interpret the intent, then what is the point?
This has been a Mobile Transmission
On Sep 3, 2011, at 4:28 PM, David Bernstein <db.color at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I think you may have missed my point a little. I did not mean to infer you were ignorant, I know that you are not, and I have the utmost respect for your talent and your success. Nor was my reference to Chicago meant to suggest you are a hick, I myself grew up a stone's throw from that great city, in the south suburbs. What I meant, and what It is clear from your comments, is that the commercial world you live in and the feature world we live in are very different, and perhaps your perception of the intent and usage of the CDL is not fully informed. It is not meant to force any colorist to do anything, or limit one in any way, but is merely a common starting place for the creative process of color grading. It a tool, like any other at your disposal, to be used or discarded at the discretion of those involved in the process. It must be used properly to be effective, and in conjunction with all the traditional methods of communication and visual
> references and relationships that we all cherish.
> If a DP or on-set technician of any sort creates a look with say, Speedgrade or Scratch , the CDL will translate that look into any other platform that supports it, like Resolve or Baselight. From there a colorist can go anywhere he wants, but at least he (or she) has a pre-determined starting point, as opposed to being handed a bunch of log files and a photo and having to start from zero. At least, this is my understanding from my limited attendance at some of the meetings in which the concept was developed. I will disclose that my own personal experience using the CDL is minimal, so I reserve the right to be completely wrong or misinformed as to its current use.
> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Craig Leffel <craig at optimus.com>
>>> David -
>> I appreciate your thoughts. I may be ignorant. But, I do not agree that forcing
>> a database on our industry that communicates just primary color corrections is
>> anything other than lazy and ignorant. I do understand the idea David - truly I
>> do. I realize what's it's supposed to communicate. While we're at
>> giving people a way to
>> communicate, can the committee please work on a standard that goes the other
>> way? You know, one where colorists could voice how best to set ISO for different
>> cameras, what file format might be more appropriate for capture and what
>> colorspace might be more useful? Because as Artists we've been told for a
>> long time that our opinion doesn't matter, and we should fuck off. The CDL
>> undermines what we do and devalues our place in the process. Primary color
>> corrections - in this case viewed in a vacuum - are pointless in relation to
>> modern image processing. Why not start with basics?
>> Really? I'm supposed to follow faithfully what a DP set on set and with a
>> person of who knows what kind of skill, on what platform, and on what
>> monitoring? That is helpful to me? It's not. Never has been, and it's
>> not to any colorist. Talking, references both visual and otherwise, and a
>> relationship will never be replaced.
>> I do, in fact, tell people to stuff it based on what I have in my hands and what
>> clients I'm with. All the time. Nicely to be sure, but my creatives,
>> producers, and the client paying for the job could give a shit what the DP says
>> about how it should look. The DP is not often concerned with commerce, nor is
>> the director. The CDL seems to be designed for feature mindsets and politics.
>> What I will say again, is that process does not represent the majority of color
>> correction being done today, the majority of users, or the majority of the
>> common uses of gear.
>> Colorists deserve a better place in the process than to be limited to a useless
>> database - and those that promote the CDL are in fact promoting laziness and
>> ignorance between colorist and DP.
>> If you missed that the first time you're not inferring enough from my
>> usually caustic approach. I'm not angry because I disagree, I'm angry
>> because this line of thinking promotes automation, robotics, and the absolute
>> disrespect of my former craft. I no longer have to hide behind ass kissing, but
>> I never did much anyway.
>> Do a little digging on me. See what manufacturers and clients say.
>> Oops, I forgot. Hick from the Midwest.
>> Still giving a shit about our craft.
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