[Tig] Weird 16mm black/white neg 7222 problem

Carl Skaff carl at stopp.se
Mon Nov 5 00:53:36 GMT 2012


Arghhhhh

Spent all weekend trying to solve this issue.

tried almost every possible thing in the Lab to find the cause, changed
some rollers (the one that helps take away Backing on ColorNeg, turned of
the aggiteting )of whatever the english name is for it, the pumps in the
developing bath), put in a plate of hot water in the elevator to increase
the humidity to minimize the risk of static (we tried with 35mm 5222 and
got static discharge, and that looks very different), skipped the alcohol
cleaner completely, tried different mags in the lab....

We now done tests with the same batch that the client used (one of the
returned rolls), unexposed, and still get the same issue.
And we also had a very old 35mm roll of the same stock 5222 (although
probably 4years old) and it also has the same effect.


here is a link if you want to see how it looks on an unexposed film.
Although on this .mov it looks as the film is darker or red'er on the right
side... I don't know if it really is so or if that is just a
calibration-error from my Scanity (fault FPN prior to the scan).

Anyone knows a smart guy in a lab or at kodak/fuji that is not on the
list... feel free to send him/her the clip.



Thanks so far for all the support.
God bless TiG and its followers, may the force be with you all.

16mm
  http://webftp.stopp.se/_oca5mDfcheqXlR

35mm
  http://webftp.stopp.se/_ZlaJCTCcwe5XMR



/carl



____________________________
*Carl Skaff
Colorist*
Stopp Stockholm
Office +46 8 50 70 35 00

*Stockholm | Los Angeles | Linz*
www.stopp.se



On Sun, Nov 4, 2012 at 5:22 AM, <tig-request at colorist.org> wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
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>    1. Re: Weird 16mm black/white neg 7222 problem (Carl Skaff)
>    2. Re: Weird 16mm black/white neg 7222 problem (Jeff Kreines)
>    3. Re: Weird 16mm black/white neg 7222 problem (Marc Wielage)
>    4. Re: Weird 16mm black/white neg 7222 problem (CARL)
>       (videogenie at aol.com)
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Carl Skaff <carl at stopp.se>
> To: "tig at colorist.org" <tig at colorist.org>
> Cc:
> Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2012 00:36:46 +0100
> Subject: Re: [Tig] Weird 16mm black/white neg 7222 problem
> The client bought 12 rolls. But only shot 7. So I have 5 unexposed and
> un-opened rolls from the same batch.
>
> Thinking that I should send one roll to another lab and have a then load it
> in a 16-camera, film something and develop, to see if the fault might be in
> the film...
>
> We used to have a lab or two in every Scandinavian county. So that used to
> be easy.
> Now we are the last action hero left, nothing left in either Norway.
> Denmark or Finland.
>
> So, is there a friendly lab out there that would be willing to expose and
> develop a roll of 7222?
>
> /Carl
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> (Sent from mobile device)
> ____________________________
> *Carl Skaff*
> *Colorist*
> Stopp Stockholm
> Office +46 8 50 70 35 00
>
> *Stockholm | Los Angeles | Linz*
> www.stopp.se
>
> 4 nov 2012 kl. 00:18 skrev Carl Skaff <carl at stopp.se>:
>
> I've got some replies and wanted to add more info on the issue.
>
> We thought it was due to residue from one of the baths. But it wasn't.
>
> I have the same effect on the entire project. 7 camera rolls of 16mm.
> In the lab it was devised into 3 different mags. 3 rolls + 2 rolls + 2
> rolls.
> Then spliced together to end up as 2 Labrolls (4rolls + 3rolls)
> Then cleaned in a alcohol based filmcleaner (not a ultrasonic cleaner)
> Then scanned in a Scanity in 2K.
>
> Some scenes has more and some less 'problem'. But that could very likely be
> due to it is more visible in dark scenes.
> I could probably claim it is more on the left side of the image (perf-side)
> but it is also on the right side, maybe less.
>
>
> After we say the problem we thought it was due to residue from the last
> rinsing bath that was stuck on the film.
> So we emptied that bath and cleaned the tank and fills it up with a new
> batch.
> Then loaded 16mm leader in the developer and then spliced the labroll to
> the leader (skipping all the nasty baths like developer/fix/stop/bleach/etc
> and just had it go down to the last part.
> That way we would have wetted the neg enough to loosen any dirt, and after
> that it went into the dryer.
>
> After that we checked it in the Scanity (same problem).
> Then we cleaned it (still same problem)
>
> So that pretty much concluded that it is not possible to remove by wetting
> it, and it is most likely not caused by the cleaner. (If it would have been
> ok after the 'bath/dry' but not after the cleaner then it would have
> pointed to the cleaner)
>
> We have checked (and will check more) with a microscope but can't find
> anything on the film.
>
> I compared the 2K scan from the first scanning to the result after it was
> 'bath/dry'+ cleaned... And the artifact are identical in the two scans.
> I was thinking (or hoping)that there was some static discharge happening on
> the film as it passed my scanner-gate. But that's not possible sine two
> scans get the exact same fault. And static discharge sparks just couldn't
> be that precise.
>
>
> I think it was shot using a Arri 416.
>
> This films WASN'T developed in the 'correct' Lab process. We only have a
> 'neg-machine'.
> But the labguy has about 200 years of experience. And says that is
> basically the same, just need to skip some baths (like bleach) and adjust
> the speed for the asa to get the right time for the developer... And we've
> done it many tunes before without these artifacts.
>
> So, that's all the background info I can give. If anyone can figure out the
> cause... I'll buy you a beer next time I see you :)
> (Or two, if the cause is proven not to be from the lab:)
>
>
> On the good side of things...
> The director came in to check the fault and he said
> 'Oh, is that the fault?... It looks beautiful! That's the effect I want!!!'
>
> The final look will probably bee like an old silent movie... So at least it
> wasn't an billion dollar car-commercial that got this.
> But nevertheless I still would need to find that cause of this.
>
> If or when I do so... I'll let you all know.
>
>
>
>
> TiG... What would we do without it!?
>
> /Carl
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> (Sent from mobile device)
> ____________________________
> *Carl Skaff*
> *Colorist*
> Stopp Stockholm
> Office +46 8 50 70 35 00
>
> *Stockholm | Los Angeles | Linz*
> www.stopp.se
>
> 3 nov 2012 kl. 20:04 skrev Carl Skaff <carl at stopp.se>:
>
> Hi all
>
> I've got an issue that I'm hoping someone out there has stumbled across
> before and knows what the cause could be.
>
> My client shot 16mm B/W negative film, Kodak 7222.
>
> The result has a weird problem. Kind of like small light speckles in the
> image in an un-even way. First I thought they had some fake snow close to
> the camera that gave this effect. But then they went inside and there
> wasn't any fake-snow added. But the effect was still there.
>
> We have checked the lab and nothing seems wrong. We did another job before
> that was ok, but that was normal color neg.
> we can't find anything physical ON the film.
>
> I have a feeling that it might be that the film built up some static
> electricity either in the camera or darkroom that caused tiny spark that
> exposed the film. I don't know. Maybe a far fetched answer.
>
> Anyone out there seen something like this before? Is so, please reply.
>
> Here is a link that shows a screen capture of a fault frame and me circling
> with the cursor to show where to look. And then stepping a frame
> before/after to show the effect.
>
>
>
>
>
> http://webftp.stopp.se/_aa84dG_yKeDW8R
>
>
>
>
>
> /Carl
>
>
>
>
>
> (Sent from mobile device)
> ____________________________
> *Carl Skaff*
> *Colorist*
> Stopp Stockholm
> Office +46 8 50 70 35 00
>
> *Stockholm | Los Angeles | Linz*
> www.stopp.se
>
>


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