[Tig] more about: Re: The ugly side of DMARC

Ted Langdell tedlangdell at gmail.com
Wed May 28 19:01:15 BST 2014

Hi, Rob,

Thanks for your efforts and investment of time. I don't think folks are aware of how much work you've put into understanding what's under the hood, and tweaking it to make for an easy user experience.

Kinda like the engineer in the post house the customer usually never sees but keeps the sessions running well for the colorist, editor and client.

I also run a MailMan based list, and have been "required" to learn more about what's under the hood... as a result of the DMARC issues and some other somewhat related things.

The ability to use MailMan is part of the webhost package I pay for annually, and run multiple sites from.

What was at one time a fairly simple "set it up and watch it run" situation is now more work.  

And I don't particularly want to go shift the list to Google (and pay additional fees) or use YahooGroups, as has been suggested by one of my host's support staff as a workaround.  I think that might have its own set of problems I don't necessarily have time to triage.

Perhaps its group users have had problems because of DMARC implementation?

I note that around May 15 Yahoo just began adding the YahooGroup mail address into the "From" field, along with the original sender's address.    

Back to work.  Have to earn my daily bread and coffee.  Not easy these days.  


Ted Langdell
iPhone: 	(530) 301-2931 (Preferred)
Office:	(530) 741-1212
ted at flashscan8.us
Skype: 	TedLangdell

On May 28, 2014, at 10:01 AM, Rob Lingelbach via Tig wrote:

> Sohonet www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG.
> RushTera www.RushTera.com supports the TIG.
> =====
> On May 28, 2014, at 10:01 AM, Rob Lingelbach <rob at colorist.org> wrote:
>> Now the ugly side of yahoo's implementation of DMARC becomes apparent. Their suggestion for those who complain about DMARC and how it breaks mailing lists is to switch to yahoogroups which doesn't have the problem ( and breaks Internet standards even worse than DMARC ). 
> The Internet bodies responsible for standards specifically
> advise against DMARC, as it breaks the RFCs.
> Notice the campaign now to use yahoo (and other large providers with
> advertising) groups.  This is the main thrust of DMARC-- to allow the economic 
> clout of the large ESP/ISP providers to set standards, and thereby force the 
> public to accept their policies including advertising.. They claim the methods 
> are used to prevent spam.  There are many other
> methods of dealing with spam.  The Feds were involved but caved in to the spam
> lobby years ago.  When was the last time you saw spam on the TIG, a group run 
> on open source according to the RFCs and Internet Engineering Task Force 
> compliance?
> And Mailman is effectively dealing with it though in my case I spent 
> many days understanding it; the various 'fixes' are complex and yet needed
> to do minimal munging and minimal damage to the existing RFCs, 
> Standards developed over almost 30 years have been thrown out the window.  That
> and the forcing of people to use commercial services are anathema to an open
> Internet.  
> Add to it the man years of work to fix existing mailing lists that conform to
> RFCs. 
> I've personally spent many days understanding the ramifications of DMARC, 
> upgrading carefully the server running the TIG, including 
> Python.Mailman.DNS/BIND, testing all the while so as not to break anything.
> My time is my own, I do this in order to keep the TIG viable.
>> Rob Lingelbach
> http://colorist.org
> http://rob.colorist.org                        
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> http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3
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