From carl at stopp.se Mon Nov 10 10:11:41 2014 From: carl at stopp.se (Carl Skaff) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 11:11:41 +0100 Subject: [Tig] Scanity in 16bit Message-ID: Hi all Maybe this forum is a faster way to get support: I'm trying to scan in 16bit on my Scanity... but the DPX comes out in the wrong "channel order". Instead of the normal RGB it seems as it is BGR, I need to swap Red and Blue to make it look correct. Any ideas? /Carl -- CARL SKAFF COLORIST STOPP/POST PRODUCTION STOPP/STHLM ODENGATAN 104 113 22 STOCKHOLM OFFICE +46 8 507 035 00 STHLM | NYC | LA WWW.STOPP.SE follow me on Instagram @colorist_carlskaff From bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us Mon Nov 10 15:32:48 2014 From: bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us (Bob Friesenhahn) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 09:32:48 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Tig] Scanity in 16bit In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Nov 2014, Carl Skaff via Tig wrote: > > Hi all > > Maybe this forum is a faster way to get support: > > I'm trying to scan in 16bit on my Scanity... but the DPX comes out in the > wrong "channel order". > Instead of the normal RGB it seems as it is BGR, I need to swap Red and > Blue to make it look correct. > > Any ideas? The DPX 2.0 specification (SMPTE 268M-2003) is a bit unclear/ambigious and vendors have accidentally or intentionally produced formats which result in wrong channel order as compared with the DPX 1.0 specification and original Cineon system. Original DPX put all data in 32-bit words so the 16-bit samples would be packed into 32-bit words which might be big/little endian. Due to interpretation (and likely influence from TIFF), Filmlight decided to output 16-bit DPX as a linear array of 16-bit samples rather than packed into 32-bit words. This changes the apparent order. While 16-bit DPX dates from the original Cineon system, a Filmlight scanner was used to produce the original STEM scans used as basis for DCI development, and 16-bit was not common before that time so Filmlight's approach has become the common way to store the data. I paper I wrote about the DPX 2.0 specification confusion may be found at "http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/dpx/dpx-issues.pdf". Unless you can cause your scanner to output samples differently, you are faced with post-processing all the files (e.g. GraphicsMagick can do that) or hopefully telling the DPX reader to re-order the samples. Bob -- Bob Friesenhahn bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ From carl at stopp.se Mon Nov 10 15:40:36 2014 From: carl at stopp.se (Carl Skaff) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 16:40:36 +0100 Subject: [Tig] Scanity in 16bit In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: yepp, this seems to be the issue In resolve it looked wrong, but in Flame it looks correct. And if Flame outputs a 16bit DPX is looks correct in Resolve. So it seems as Resolve is reading the Scanity-16bit-DPX incorrectly. /carl -- CARL SKAFF COLORIST STOPP/POST PRODUCTION STOPP/STHLM ODENGATAN 104 113 22 STOCKHOLM OFFICE +46 8 507 035 00 STHLM | NYC | LA WWW.STOPP.SE follow me on Instagram @colorist_carlskaff On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 4:32 PM, Bob Friesenhahn < bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us> wrote: > On Mon, 10 Nov 2014, Carl Skaff via Tig wrote: > >> >> Hi all >> >> Maybe this forum is a faster way to get support: >> >> I'm trying to scan in 16bit on my Scanity... but the DPX comes out in the >> wrong "channel order". >> Instead of the normal RGB it seems as it is BGR, I need to swap Red and >> Blue to make it look correct. >> >> Any ideas? >> > > The DPX 2.0 specification (SMPTE 268M-2003) is a bit unclear/ambigious and > vendors have accidentally or intentionally produced formats which result in > wrong channel order as compared with the DPX 1.0 specification and original > Cineon system. > > Original DPX put all data in 32-bit words so the 16-bit samples would be > packed into 32-bit words which might be big/little endian. Due to > interpretation (and likely influence from TIFF), Filmlight decided to > output 16-bit DPX as a linear array of 16-bit samples rather than packed > into 32-bit words. This changes the apparent order. While 16-bit DPX > dates from the original Cineon system, a Filmlight scanner was used to > produce the original STEM scans used as basis for DCI development, and > 16-bit was not common before that time so Filmlight's approach has become > the common way to store the data. > > I paper I wrote about the DPX 2.0 specification confusion may be found at " > http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/dpx/dpx-issues.pdf". > > Unless you can cause your scanner to output samples differently, you are > faced with post-processing all the files (e.g. GraphicsMagick can do that) > or hopefully telling the DPX reader to re-order the samples. > > Bob > -- > Bob Friesenhahn > bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ > GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ > From weagles at bigpond.net.au Tue Nov 11 07:09:31 2014 From: weagles at bigpond.net.au (Warren Eagles) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 17:09:31 +1000 Subject: [Tig] Drinks at the Cat and Fiddle Hollywood Message-ID: <5FFBEC52-0D04-4780-86D6-61E8456A6939@bigpond.net.au> Longtime Colorist hangout the 'Cat and Fiddle' in Hollywood, is closing down. So we will be gathering one last time on Thursday 20th November 6pm onwards. Hope to see you there. http://www.thecatandfiddle.com Warren @warreneagles From rob at colorist.org Tue Nov 11 13:44:34 2014 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 07:44:34 -0600 Subject: [Tig] Drinks at the Cat and Fiddle Hollywood In-Reply-To: <5FFBEC52-0D04-4780-86D6-61E8456A6939@bigpond.net.au> References: <5FFBEC52-0D04-4780-86D6-61E8456A6939@bigpond.net.au> Message-ID: <6C7A66B8-25D2-408A-A786-8DEC48855F97@colorist.org> > On Nov 11, 2014, at 1:09 AM, Warren Eagles via Tig wrote: > > Longtime Colorist hangout the 'Cat and Fiddle' in Hollywood, is closing down. That's an historic building. Other tenants have included production companies and animation studios. From what I've heard, CaF is a victim of the high rents and overdevelopment suffusing Hollywood. A chain will probably take over. Some gatherings held there over the years: first TIG party in 1992; Action Video party in 1990; STE Hollywood various times; additional TIG parties; after-OSCARs.., the restaurant owner Paula was always gracious in allowing us several tables on the patio. And one could park on Seward. The original location in Laurel Canyon (1982-1985) made for a hip getaway; hopefully Paula and Ashlee can find something similar. Rob -- rob at colorist.org http://rob.colorist.org From chili.styles at gmail.com Wed Nov 12 11:32:14 2014 From: chili.styles at gmail.com (Bojan Mastilovic) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 12:32:14 +0100 Subject: [Tig] Scanning tinted negative film Message-ID: Hello, we are scanning a internegative film made from a copy of the film from 1916. The film is tinted by a manual process, so we have some yellow, blue and pink scenes. We have a Northlight scanner, and if we look for a Dmin (pure black) in the frame bar between the frames, we get the very slight tint color. I do not know how this film was tinted (the process) but I would guess that whoever was working on manual tinting did not paint only the picture, carefully avoiding tinting the frame bar. I think that tint was spilled also on the frame bar, and when I tell the scanner to measure the frame bar it finds it a bit yellow, and it make a compensation for it. So the images we have are black and white with very slight color tint. By it I mean so slight that you can barely notice it. Do you have any suggestions how to properly scan this? Thank you! -- Bojan Mastilovic Producer Restart Production www.restart.si From rem-brandt at rogers.com Wed Nov 12 17:29:50 2014 From: rem-brandt at rogers.com (Bill Holley) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 12:29:50 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Archiving with Resolve Message-ID: Just wondering what your thoughts are on using Resolve11 to grade and restore 2k or 4k Data from archival film? Ingesting with Spirit 4k - Bones/Phantom and Arri. Best regards, Cordialement, Bill. Film/DI/Data Colorist National Film Board of Canada William R. Holley 1.514.266.0685 ONF/NFB From grahamcollett at visible-sprockets.co.uk Wed Nov 12 17:55:56 2014 From: grahamcollett at visible-sprockets.co.uk (Graham Collett) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 17:55:56 +0000 Subject: [Tig] Drinks at the Cat and Fiddle Hollywood In-Reply-To: <5FFBEC52-0D04-4780-86D6-61E8456A6939@bigpond.net.au> References: <5FFBEC52-0D04-4780-86D6-61E8456A6939@bigpond.net.au> Message-ID: <1415814982442.13419@visible-sprockets.co.uk> Wow ! the film industry demise has far reaching implications .... this is serious !! bit of a trek just for a last pint. Say goodbye for me. Graham Collett Visible Sprockets ________________________________ From: Warren Eagles Sent: 11 November 2014 07:09 To: tig at colorist.org Subject: [Tig] Drinks at the Cat and Fiddle Hollywood Longtime Colorist hangout the 'Cat and Fiddle' in Hollywood, is closing down. So we will be gathering one last time on Thursday 20th November 6pm onwards. Hope to see you there. http://www.thecatandfiddle.com Warren @warreneagles From marktoddosborne at gmail.com Wed Nov 12 18:11:41 2014 From: marktoddosborne at gmail.com (Mark Todd Osborne) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 10:11:41 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Drinks at the Cat and Fiddle Hollywood In-Reply-To: <5FFBEC52-0D04-4780-86D6-61E8456A6939@bigpond.net.au> References: <5FFBEC52-0D04-4780-86D6-61E8456A6939@bigpond.net.au> Message-ID: Will do my best to be there, Warren. Looking forward to seeing you all! MTO marktoddosborne.com On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 11:09 PM, Warren Eagles via Tig wrote: > Sohonet www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. > RushTera www.RushTera.com supports the TIG. > ===== > > > Longtime Colorist hangout the 'Cat and Fiddle' in Hollywood, is closing > down. > So we will be gathering one last time on Thursday 20th November 6pm > onwards. > Hope to see you there. > http://www.thecatandfiddle.com > > Warren > @warreneagles > > > _______________________________________________ > http://colorist.org > To change subscription options, see > http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig > From trovak at comcast.net Wed Nov 12 18:14:16 2014 From: trovak at comcast.net (Tom Rovak) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 18:14:16 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Tig] Archiving with Resolve In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2075521969.2107992.1415816056967.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> I have used it to restore some feature films from the early 1970s. Scanned in 2K, DPX. I did the re-syncing of the optical audio as well (after it was scanned to WAV files). I have never used anything better. Tom Rovak - Executive Producer / Sr. Colorist / Post Production Supervisor ROVAK COLORIST SERVICES A Division Of The Annex Studios Commercials, Feature Films, Music Videos, Long Form Color Correction, Dailies, Editorial, Finish/VFX trovak at comcast.net (815)690-8323 IMDB: http://www . imdb.com/name/nm1652946/?ref_=rvi_nm Website / Commercial Reel: http://colorist-rovak.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "tig" To: "tig" Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2014 11:29:50 AM Subject: [Tig] Archiving with Resolve Sohonet www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. RushTera www.RushTera.com supports the TIG. ===== Just wondering what your thoughts are on using Resolve11 to grade and restore 2k or 4k Data from archival film? Ingesting with Spirit 4k - Bones/Phantom and Arri. Best regards, Cordialement, Bill. Film/DI/Data Colorist National Film Board of Canada William R. Holley 1.514.266.0685 ONF/NFB _______________________________________________ http://colorist.org To change subscription options, see http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig From richard at filmlight.ltd.uk Wed Nov 12 21:02:04 2014 From: richard at filmlight.ltd.uk (Richard Kirk) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 21:02:04 +0000 Subject: [Tig] Drinks at the Cat and Fiddle Hollywood In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Warren Eagles sez.. > > Longtime Colorist hangout the 'Cat and Fiddle' in Hollywood, is closing down. > So we will be gathering one last time on Thursday 20th November 6pm onwards. Noooooo! A fine pub. A proper pub. Decent ale, sausage & mash (good gravy). Too good to last, I guess. Adieu, Cat & Fiddle - hope you turn up somewhere else. Richard Kirk (a fan) --- FilmLight Ltd, Artists House, 14-15 Manette Street, London W1D 4AP Tel: +44 (0)20 7292 0400 Fax: +44 (0)20 7292 0401 From richard at filmlight.ltd.uk Wed Nov 12 21:53:06 2014 From: richard at filmlight.ltd.uk (Richard Kirk) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 21:53:06 +0000 Subject: [Tig] Scanning tinted negative film (Bojan Mastilovic) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87B0EE39-440F-47D5-B84D-0B285C38D188@filmlight.ltd.uk> > Bojan Mastilovic sez... > > we are scanning a internegative film made from a copy of the film from > 1916. The film is tinted by a manual process, so we have some yellow, blue > and pink scenes. We have a Northlight scanner, and if we look for a Dmin > (pure black) in the frame bar between the frames, we get the very slight > tint color. I do not know how this film was tinted (the process) but I > would guess that whoever was working on manual tinting did not paint only > the picture, carefully avoiding tinting the frame bar. Daaamn! What you got there, man? Normally I would have expected the whole frame to be tinted. Kodak did film with several different coloured bases, but that would put the dye everywhere. There were also tinting processes where the film was soaked in a dye solution and then fixed, trapping the dye in the gelatin. If this was a European film, I would expect this. There was an early version of the dye transfer process, called the Handschiegl process (good summary on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handschiegl_color_process) but 1916 is almost too early for this, and anyway the dye ended end up on the blanked out regions of the film, so it ought to avoid the frame bar. This more or less leaves hand colouring, and the Pathe stencil process. Do you know anything about how the original film was copied? This is fairly important - if it was a contact dupe then you will probably have to increase the black & white density by about 20% for the Callier effect, but if you had a f/4 condenser lens the you probably don't want to adjust the gain at all but the film might not be able to match the density of the original. The dye not appearing on the frame bar may be an artefact of the duplicating film exposure. The dye densities would not mach your visual densities if your duplicating lamp-house was not using Status A balanced primaries. ...and so it goes on. I am probably gong to need a bit more information before I start giving useful advice. Or perhaps a scanned frame to look at. Or, maybe we just take the black & white information, and then re-tint it from scratch. If people have been projecting the original for a hundred years or so, then the dyes have probably faded a bit. Cheers. Richard Kirk --- FilmLight Ltd, Artists House, 14-15 Manette Street, London W1D 4AP Tel: +44 (0)20 7292 0400 Fax: +44 (0)20 7292 0401 From mfw at musictrax.com Sun Nov 16 23:58:23 2014 From: mfw at musictrax.com (Marc Wielage) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 15:58:23 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Old-school SMPTE Framing/Focus Telecine Chart In-Reply-To: <2075521969.2107992.1415816056967.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> Message-ID: Hey, I was chatting with a friend of mine the other day, and we couldn?t for the life of us remember the official SMPTE RP number of this piece of 35mm setup film. Here?s a link to a photo I grabbed of it: http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy16/MWielage_photos/SMPTEFraming_zps13e bafe7.jpg Let me know if anybody can remember the RP (Recommended Practices) number, assuming there was one. Thanks! ?Marc W. freelance colorist From gson6046 at pacbell.net Mon Nov 17 00:07:00 2014 From: gson6046 at pacbell.net (Glenn Eason) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 16:07:00 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Old-school SMPTE Framing/Focus Telecine Chart In-Reply-To: References: <2075521969.2107992.1415816056967.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> Message-ID: <001f01d001fa$6b8c1a20$42a44e60$@pacbell.net> RP-40 -----Original Message----- From: Tig [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On Behalf Of Marc Wielage via Tig Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2014 3:58 PM To: TIG Subject: [Tig] Old-school SMPTE Framing/Focus Telecine Chart Sohonet www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. RushTera www.RushTera.com supports the TIG. ===== Hey, I was chatting with a friend of mine the other day, and we couldn?t for the life of us remember the official SMPTE RP number of this piece of 35mm setup film. Here?s a link to a photo I grabbed of it: http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy16/MWielage_photos/SMPTEFraming_zps13e bafe7.jpg Let me know if anybody can remember the RP (Recommended Practices) number, assuming there was one. Thanks! ?Marc W. freelance colorist _______________________________________________ http://colorist.org To change subscription options, see http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig From tomt at niceshoes.com Mon Nov 17 01:58:09 2014 From: tomt at niceshoes.com (Tom Tomlinson) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 20:58:09 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Old-school SMPTE Framing/Focus Telecine Chart In-Reply-To: References: <2075521969.2107992.1415816056967.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> Message-ID: I thought more toward RP27.1 rp40 is more film aspect ratio-ish > > -- Tom Tomlinson Telecine Ass't. / Colour Plumber Nice Shoes 352 Park Ave. South-16th floor New York,NY 10010 212-683-1704 tomt at niceshoes.com From mfw at musictrax.com Mon Nov 17 08:01:21 2014 From: mfw at musictrax.com (Marc Wielage) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 00:01:21 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Old-school SMPTE Framing/Focus Telecine Chart In-Reply-To: Message-ID: So after several days of detective work, I determined that SMPTE had discarded and removed all their old test film information from their public site, but I was able to discover this: http://www.sprocketschool.org/w/images/3/38/Smpte-test-materials-catalog.pd f That lists everything that we old-school telecine operators were familiar with in the 1990s. Staff engineer Rick Heaslip (still with Technicolor) was able to determine it was called the ?Telecine Alignment Film? (aka the ?TAR?) sold by SMPTE as TV35-AR50, and that?s the ?Classic? sizing loop we always used with the Ranks and the Spirits in SD throughout the 1980s, 1990s, and early 2000s. DI engineer/consultant Ray Mitchell found a later version of the exact same sizing film from the 1990s that had been augmented with ?RP40,? so at some point SMPTE just changed the number. Images of the film are scattered around the net as a ?Test Card,? but now we know what it properly should be called. Glad that this mystery is finally solved! ?Marc W. freelance colorist From weagles at bigpond.net.au Mon Nov 17 11:22:24 2014 From: weagles at bigpond.net.au (weagles at bigpond.net.au) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 22:22:24 +1100 Subject: [Tig] What are you grading 2014? Message-ID: <20141117112225.ACIB1.43017.root@nschwwebs06p> The ICA Colorist survey is back, pick any 3 jobs during November and tell us about them. Camera, display, codec, $$ rate, 4K or HD, location etc I am posting here to capture the more established grader:) It's anonymous, no login needed. Have fun Warren http://www.sogosurvey.com/k/RQsRPPXQsVsPsPsP From carl at stopp.se Wed Nov 19 18:23:30 2014 From: carl at stopp.se (Carl Skaff) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 19:23:30 +0100 Subject: [Tig] Scans from different scanners Message-ID: <2421994461923691885@unknownmsgid> Hi all If you scan a Neg, let's say an ocn kodak vision 3 250D, on different scanners (not telecines), Arri, Ditto, NorthLight, GoldenEye, Scanity, Spirit4K, Lasergraphic, etc etc. Are they supposed to match just because they are all '10bit Log scans'? I mean, if someone have LUTs setup for scans made on an Arri... Are they supposed to work if they get scans from another machine of a different make. /Carl -- CARL SKAFF COLORIST STOPP/POST PRODUCTION STOPP/STHLM ODENGATAN 104 113 22 STOCKHOLM OFFICE +46 8 507 035 00 <+46%208%20507%20035%2000> STHLM | NYC | LA | LDN WWW.STOPP.SE Follow me on Instagram @Colorist_CarlSkaff From tomt at niceshoes.com Wed Nov 19 19:09:29 2014 From: tomt at niceshoes.com (Tom Tomlinson) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 14:09:29 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Scans from different scanners In-Reply-To: <2421994461923691885@unknownmsgid> References: <2421994461923691885@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: Its my understanding that an ACES calibrated scanner will produce an APD dpx that should match scans from a different scanner make. Cineon scanning is an approximation by the manufacturers of what cineon is. see this video: http://vimeo.com/70889519 On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 1:23 PM, Carl Skaff via Tig wrote: > Sohonet www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. > RushTera www.RushTera.com supports the TIG. > ===== > > > Hi all > > If you scan a Neg, let's say an ocn kodak vision 3 250D, on different > scanners (not telecines), Arri, Ditto, NorthLight, GoldenEye, Scanity, > Spirit4K, Lasergraphic, etc etc. > > Are they supposed to match just because they are all '10bit Log scans'? > > I mean, if someone have LUTs setup for scans made on an Arri... Are they > supposed to work if they get scans from another machine of a different > make. > > > /Carl > > > > > > > -- > CARL SKAFF > COLORIST STOPP/POST PRODUCTION > > STOPP/STHLM > ODENGATAN 104 > 113 22 STOCKHOLM > OFFICE +46 8 507 035 00 <+46%208%20507%20035%2000> > > STHLM | NYC | LA | LDN > WWW.STOPP.SE > > Follow me on Instagram @Colorist_CarlSkaff > _______________________________________________ > http://colorist.org > To change subscription options, see > http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig > -- Tom Tomlinson Telecine Ass't. / Colour Plumber Nice Shoes 352 Park Ave. South-16th floor New York,NY 10010 212-683-1704 tomt at niceshoes.com From trovak at comcast.net Wed Nov 19 20:14:14 2014 From: trovak at comcast.net (Tom Rovak) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 20:14:14 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Tig] Scans from different scanners In-Reply-To: References: <2421994461923691885@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <1912211105.6496277.1416428054440.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> The scanner light source is always a factor and it seems no 2 are exactly the same. I had a facility that managed several scanners and there were always variances. Sometimes we would scan film for dailies and then several months later when I would do the final grade, a new lamp had been installed. Though the light levels weren't drastically different, they were different. You simply readjusted, that's what being a colorist was about. Tom Rovak - Executive Producer / Sr. Colorist / Post Production Supervisor ROVAK COLORIST SERVICES A Division Of The Annex Studios Commercials, Feature Films, Music Videos, Long Form Color Correction, Dailies, Editorial, Finish/VFX trovak at comcast.net (815)690-8323 IMDB: http://www . imdb.com/name/nm1652946/?ref_=rvi_nm Website / Commercial Reel: http://colorist-rovak.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "tig" To: "Carl Skaff" Cc: "tig" Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2014 1:09:29 PM Subject: Re: [Tig] Scans from different scanners Sohonet www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. RushTera www.RushTera.com supports the TIG. ===== Its my understanding that an ACES calibrated scanner will produce an APD dpx that should match scans from a different scanner make. Cineon scanning is an approximation by the manufacturers of what cineon is. see this video: http://vimeo.com/70889519 On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 1:23 PM, Carl Skaff via Tig wrote: > Sohonet www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. > RushTera www.RushTera.com supports the TIG. > ===== > > > Hi all > > If you scan a Neg, let's say an ocn kodak vision 3 250D, on different > scanners (not telecines), Arri, Ditto, NorthLight, GoldenEye, Scanity, > Spirit4K, Lasergraphic, etc etc. > > Are they supposed to match just because they are all '10bit Log scans'? > > I mean, if someone have LUTs setup for scans made on an Arri... Are they > supposed to work if they get scans from another machine of a different > make. > > > /Carl > > > > > > > -- > CARL SKAFF > COLORIST STOPP/POST PRODUCTION > > STOPP/STHLM > ODENGATAN 104 > 113 22 STOCKHOLM > OFFICE +46 8 507 035 00 <+46%208%20507%20035%2000> > > STHLM | NYC | LA | LDN > WWW.STOPP.SE > > Follow me on Instagram @Colorist_CarlSkaff > _______________________________________________ > http://colorist.org > To change subscription options, see > http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig > -- Tom Tomlinson Telecine Ass't. / Colour Plumber Nice Shoes 352 Park Ave. South-16th floor New York,NY 10010 212-683-1704 tomt at niceshoes.com _______________________________________________ http://colorist.org To change subscription options, see http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig From dwooldridge at mac.com Thu Nov 20 06:56:04 2014 From: dwooldridge at mac.com (Darin Wooldridge) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 22:56:04 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Scans from different scanners In-Reply-To: <1912211105.6496277.1416428054440.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> References: <2421994461923691885@unknownmsgid> <1912211105.6496277.1416428054440.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> Message-ID: <34D9A38D-DFA4-4D7E-8BCB-1CEF4AA03895@mac.com> Well put Tom! Isn't ACES still in beta. A work in progress? Constantly changing? Darin Wooldridge. Sent from my iPhone. > On Nov 19, 2014, at 12:14 PM, Tom Rovak via Tig wrote: > > Sohonet www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. > RushTera www.RushTera.com supports the TIG. > ===== > > > The scanner light source is always a factor and it seems no 2 are exactly the same. I had a facility that managed several scanners and there were always variances. Sometimes we would scan film for dailies and then several months later when I would do the final grade, a new lamp had been installed. Though the light levels weren't drastically different, they were different. You simply readjusted, that's what being a colorist was about. > > Tom Rovak - Executive Producer / Sr. Colorist / Post Production Supervisor > ROVAK COLORIST SERVICES > A Division Of The Annex Studios > Commercials, Feature Films, Music Videos, Long Form > Color Correction, Dailies, Editorial, Finish/VFX > trovak at comcast.net > (815)690-8323 > IMDB: http://www . imdb.com/name/nm1652946/?ref_=rvi_nm > Website / Commercial Reel: http://colorist-rovak.com/ > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "tig" > To: "Carl Skaff" > Cc: "tig" > Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2014 1:09:29 PM > Subject: Re: [Tig] Scans from different scanners > > Sohonet www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. > RushTera www.RushTera.com supports the TIG. > ===== > > > Its my understanding that an ACES calibrated scanner will produce an APD > dpx that should match scans from a different scanner make. > > Cineon scanning is an approximation by the manufacturers of what cineon is. > > see this video: http://vimeo.com/70889519 > > On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 1:23 PM, Carl Skaff via Tig > wrote: > >> Sohonet www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. >> RushTera www.RushTera.com supports the TIG. >> ===== >> >> >> Hi all >> >> If you scan a Neg, let's say an ocn kodak vision 3 250D, on different >> scanners (not telecines), Arri, Ditto, NorthLight, GoldenEye, Scanity, >> Spirit4K, Lasergraphic, etc etc. >> >> Are they supposed to match just because they are all '10bit Log scans'? >> >> I mean, if someone have LUTs setup for scans made on an Arri... Are they >> supposed to work if they get scans from another machine of a different >> make. >> >> >> /Carl >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> CARL SKAFF >> COLORIST STOPP/POST PRODUCTION >> >> STOPP/STHLM >> ODENGATAN 104 >> 113 22 STOCKHOLM >> OFFICE +46 8 507 035 00 <+46%208%20507%20035%2000> >> >> STHLM | NYC | LA | LDN >> WWW.STOPP.SE >> >> Follow me on Instagram @Colorist_CarlSkaff >> _______________________________________________ >> http://colorist.org >> To change subscription options, see >> http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig > > > > -- > Tom Tomlinson > Telecine Ass't. / Colour Plumber > > Nice Shoes > 352 Park Ave. South-16th floor > New York,NY > 10010 > > 212-683-1704 > tomt at niceshoes.com > _______________________________________________ > http://colorist.org > To change subscription options, see http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig > > _______________________________________________ > http://colorist.org > To change subscription options, see http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig From grahamcollett at visible-sprockets.co.uk Thu Nov 20 10:02:05 2014 From: grahamcollett at visible-sprockets.co.uk (Graham Collett) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 10:02:05 +0000 Subject: [Tig] Old-school SMPTE Framing/Focus Telecine Chart In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <977082F3-3134-457B-80D4-CD0BF32CB6BE@visible-sprockets.co.uk> SMPTE AR-35 and AR-16, later on an independent DEL chart included s35 sizing and became the standard. Uk's Channel 4 made a s16 film also, ..they couldn't wait for SMPTE to publish the s16 spec, so it was never rubber stamped but became standard because it was the only thing available. Graham Collett Visible Sprockets ltd Www.visible-sprockets.co.ik Sent from my iPhone > On 17 Nov 2014, at 08:01, Marc Wielage wrote: > > So after several days of detective work, I determined that SMPTE had > discarded and removed all their old test film information from their > public site, but I was able to discover this: > > http://www.sprocketschool.org/w/images/3/38/Smpte-test-materials-catalog.pd > f > > That lists everything that we old-school telecine operators were familiar > with in the 1990s. Staff engineer Rick Heaslip (still with Technicolor) > was able to determine it was called the ?Telecine Alignment Film? (aka the > ?TAR?) sold by SMPTE as TV35-AR50, and that?s the ?Classic? sizing loop we > always used with the Ranks and the Spirits in SD throughout the 1980s, > 1990s, and early 2000s. DI engineer/consultant Ray Mitchell found a later > version of the exact same sizing film from the 1990s that had been > augmented with ?RP40,? so at some point SMPTE just changed the number. > > Images of the film are scattered around the net as a ?Test Card,? but now > we know what it properly should be called. Glad that this mystery is > finally solved! > > > freelance colorist > > > > From kevin.j.wheatley at gmail.com Thu Nov 20 10:10:27 2014 From: kevin.j.wheatley at gmail.com (Kevin Wheatley) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 10:10:27 +0000 Subject: [Tig] Scans from different scanners In-Reply-To: <34D9A38D-DFA4-4D7E-8BCB-1CEF4AA03895@mac.com> References: <2421994461923691885@unknownmsgid> <1912211105.6496277.1416428054440.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <34D9A38D-DFA4-4D7E-8BCB-1CEF4AA03895@mac.com> Message-ID: So the goal of scanning colour film is to recover the dye densities at each position of the film, to do that you want to pass light through the film, some of which will get absorbed by the dyes (and base) but let through some frequencies, that can then fall upon a set of sensors that can distinguish the effect of the different dyes. As part of this your need to optimize a number of aspects such as noise/dynamic range, sensor spectral sensitivities, light source power distribution, etc. You also may consider the typical absorption properties of different film types (neg vs print etc). Unfortunately there is no perfect choice available, when trying to make a cost effective scanner. Ideally you could spectrally scan the film but this would be impractical as you would need too long an exposure to get a good signal (you can't push too much light power through the film without damaging it). Instead you try match the peak sensitivity of the sensor with the product of the film and light source (including lenses, reflectors, light guides etc.) so that the exposure time is lowered and then you can scan faster without melting the film. So when you calibrate a scanner you should ideally spectrally scan a variety of each film stock exposed with a set of colour patches, the slow and hard way, then repeat the scan with the scanner you want to calibrate. You can then calculate an ideal result your scanner should get from the spectral and use that to build a calibration for the actual delta. As this is a reduction in basis (many channels of spectral data down to 3 RGB values) this is an approximation. This and other variations such as exact lamp colour, etc. means that different scanners produce different outputs even after calibration. Even worse is because of all these compromises your scanner becomes sensitive to changes such as lamp switches, filter fading etc. this means you should re-calibrate more often than you would like. The ACES printing density is intended to give an ideal target for each vendor of scanners to target to try make similar scans. In essence it is a revised attempt to standardise what was done in the Cineon system and is almost identical to how Cinesite calibrated their scanners but with modified targets. My understanding of how other scanning vendors calibrated their systems is limited but I am led to believe they also followed similar approaches - but may have targeted different sets of density e.g. Status M, rather than printing density (note this is not Status A). Kevin From carl at stopp.se Thu Nov 20 12:51:18 2014 From: carl at stopp.se (Carl Skaff) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 13:51:18 +0100 Subject: [Tig] Scans from different scanners In-Reply-To: <34D9A38D-DFA4-4D7E-8BCB-1CEF4AA03895@mac.com> References: <2421994461923691885@unknownmsgid> <1912211105.6496277.1416428054440.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <34D9A38D-DFA4-4D7E-8BCB-1CEF4AA03895@mac.com> Message-ID: <-236679858729199252@unknownmsgid> Is anyone doing APD DPX? /Carl -- CARL SKAFF COLORIST STOPP/POST PRODUCTION STOPP/STHLM ODENGATAN 104 113 22 STOCKHOLM OFFICE +46 8 507 035 00 <+46%208%20507%20035%2000> STHLM | NYC | LA | LDN WWW.STOPP.SE Follow me on Instagram @Colorist_CarlSkaff 20 nov 2014 kl. 07:56 skrev Darin Wooldridge : Well put Tom! Isn't ACES still in beta. A work in progress? Constantly changing? Darin Wooldridge. Sent from my iPhone. On Nov 19, 2014, at 12:14 PM, Tom Rovak via Tig wrote: Sohonet www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. RushTera www.RushTera.com supports the TIG. ===== The scanner light source is always a factor and it seems no 2 are exactly the same. I had a facility that managed several scanners and there were always variances. Sometimes we would scan film for dailies and then several months later when I would do the final grade, a new lamp had been installed. Though the light levels weren't drastically different, they were different. You simply readjusted, that's what being a colorist was about. Tom Rovak - Executive Producer / Sr. Colorist / Post Production Supervisor ROVAK COLORIST SERVICES A Division Of The Annex Studios Commercials, Feature Films, Music Videos, Long Form Color Correction, Dailies, Editorial, Finish/VFX trovak at comcast.net (815)690-8323 IMDB: http://www . imdb.com/name/nm1652946/?ref_=rvi_nm Website / Commercial Reel: http://colorist-rovak.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "tig" To: "Carl Skaff" Cc: "tig" Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2014 1:09:29 PM Subject: Re: [Tig] Scans from different scanners Sohonet www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. RushTera www.RushTera.com supports the TIG. ===== Its my understanding that an ACES calibrated scanner will produce an APD dpx that should match scans from a different scanner make. Cineon scanning is an approximation by the manufacturers of what cineon is. see this video: http://vimeo.com/70889519 On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 1:23 PM, Carl Skaff via Tig wrote: Sohonet www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. RushTera www.RushTera.com supports the TIG. ===== Hi all If you scan a Neg, let's say an ocn kodak vision 3 250D, on different scanners (not telecines), Arri, Ditto, NorthLight, GoldenEye, Scanity, Spirit4K, Lasergraphic, etc etc. Are they supposed to match just because they are all '10bit Log scans'? I mean, if someone have LUTs setup for scans made on an Arri... Are they supposed to work if they get scans from another machine of a different make. /Carl -- CARL SKAFF COLORIST STOPP/POST PRODUCTION STOPP/STHLM ODENGATAN 104 113 22 STOCKHOLM OFFICE +46 8 507 035 00 <+46%208%20507%20035%2000> STHLM | NYC | LA | LDN WWW.STOPP.SE Follow me on Instagram @Colorist_CarlSkaff _______________________________________________ http://colorist.org To change subscription options, see http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig -- Tom Tomlinson Telecine Ass't. / Colour Plumber Nice Shoes 352 Park Ave. South-16th floor New York,NY 10010 212-683-1704 tomt at niceshoes.com _______________________________________________ http://colorist.org To change subscription options, see http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig _______________________________________________ http://colorist.org To change subscription options, see http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig From rob at colorist.org Sat Nov 22 00:06:16 2014 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 18:06:16 -0600 Subject: [Tig] Sam Holtz remembered Message-ID: A page exists on the TIG wiki with collections of remembrances for Sam Holtz, who passed away late in 2010. Under the All Time engineer nominations at http://colorist.org/wiki/index.php/All_time_engineer_nominations , see the link for Sam Holtz (4th one down) or go directly to: http://colorist.org/wiki/index.php/Sam_Holtz This Sam Holtz tribute section can be expanded and any who would like to add to it are encouraged. Bob Belcher?s notes along with Leon Silverman?s are there. Please contact me at rob at colorist.org Rob TIG admin ? Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From rob at colorist.org Sat Nov 22 00:39:44 2014 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 18:39:44 -0600 Subject: [Tig] Sam Holtz page Message-ID: <5D60F39A-2AA7-4153-8DB6-0AAF11EC7730@colorist.org> Sam Holtz, engineer, facility owner, artist and entrepreneur, was a wonderful man and an inspiration to many of us who worked for him. A page on the TIG wiki is at http://colorist.org/wiki/index.php/Sam_Holtz (I?ve just set up this page after realizing we hadn?t done it after the memorial service. Anyone who wants to add comments please send them along and I?ll put them up.) Rob ? Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us Sat Nov 22 02:41:45 2014 From: bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us (Bob Friesenhahn) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 20:41:45 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Tig] Sam Holtz page In-Reply-To: <5D60F39A-2AA7-4153-8DB6-0AAF11EC7730@colorist.org> References: <5D60F39A-2AA7-4153-8DB6-0AAF11EC7730@colorist.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Nov 2014, Rob Lingelbach via Tig wrote: > > Sam Holtz, engineer, facility owner, artist and entrepreneur, was a wonderful man and an inspiration to many of us who worked for him. A page on the TIG wiki is at > http://colorist.org/wiki/index.php/Sam_Holtz > > (I?ve just set up this page after realizing we hadn?t done it after the memorial service. Anyone who wants to add comments please send them along and I?ll put them up.) This is really great stuff. I wish that I had opportunity to meet him. Some people really make a difference. Bob -- Bob Friesenhahn bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ From richard at filmlight.ltd.uk Sat Nov 22 10:02:23 2014 From: richard at filmlight.ltd.uk (Richard Kirk) Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2014 10:02:23 +0000 Subject: [Tig] Subject: Re: Scans from different scanners In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi. The Northlight scanner was designed to measure RP-180 primaries. This is a Kodak standard very similar to Status A. One or the other is the logical choice when designing a scanner to measure film negative. If you change a lamp, the spectral sensitivities will change slightly, but this is little more than a shift in the R-G-B balance and is largely compensated for when the scanner is white balanced. If you put the same original in different Northlight scanners you may see slight differences, but this will not be significant with camera material as the images have not been graded yet. If you want to be more precise, it is possible to scan a Truelight test strip, and then make a calibration from the scan and the corresponding densitometer measurements. Or you can put the same strip through two scanners and make a transform that should match one scanner to the other. I don't know if anyone outside FIlmLight has ever done this, but the tools are there if anyone wants them. Personally, I would recommend doing without and living with the differences provided they are small. In general, anything you do to the scanned data, including sharpening or noise reduction will potentially do some harm. Cheers. Richard From jdhouston at earthlink.net Sat Nov 22 16:37:44 2014 From: jdhouston at earthlink.net (Jim Houston) Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2014 08:37:44 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Scans from different scanners In-Reply-To: <34D9A38D-DFA4-4D7E-8BCB-1CEF4AA03895@mac.com> References: <2421994461923691885@unknownmsgid> <1912211105.6496277.1416428054440.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <34D9A38D-DFA4-4D7E-8BCB-1CEF4AA03895@mac.com> Message-ID: <13C37883-3BB7-4CD6-AB24-464C07D64582@earthlink.net> On Nov 19, 2014, at 10:56 PM, Darin Wooldridge via Tig wrote: > Isn't ACES still in beta. > A work in progress? Constantly changing? Not exactly. The scanner work was all completed and standardized in 2012. This isn?t changing and neither is the ACES color space. The output preview has been tweaked (just like Kodak tweaked their print films for years) but is getting close to a stable version. Getting scanner manufacturers to provide a built-in ADX setup is a bit of an issue? it is a chicken and egg problem because they won?t do it unless users ask for it, and users can?t see it because it hasn?t been put in. The ASC?s ICAS test shoot a couple of years ago used ACES for the production and the film element was shot in ADX. Dailies of the film and the digital film cameras all matched each other with the need for much of a grade. All the film scans needed were to set the black level on the scope and they were done. Jim Houston Pasadena, CA From jdhouston at earthlink.net Sat Nov 22 16:51:30 2014 From: jdhouston at earthlink.net (Jim Houston) Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2014 08:51:30 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Scans from different scanners In-Reply-To: <13C37883-3BB7-4CD6-AB24-464C07D64582@earthlink.net> References: <2421994461923691885@unknownmsgid> <1912211105.6496277.1416428054440.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <34D9A38D-DFA4-4D7E-8BCB-1CEF4AA03895@mac.com> <13C37883-3BB7-4CD6-AB24-464C07D64582@earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Nov 19, 2014, at 10:56 PM, Darin Wooldridge via Tig wrote: > Isn't ACES still in beta. > A work in progress? Constantly changing? Not exactly. The scanner work was all completed and standardized in 2012. This isn?t changing and neither is the ACES color space. The output preview has been tweaked (just like Kodak tweaked their print films for years) but is getting close to a stable version. Getting scanner manufacturers to provide a built-in ADX setup is a bit of an issue? it is a chicken and egg problem because they won?t do it unless users ask for it, and users can?t see it because it hasn?t been put in. The ASC?s ICAS test shoot a couple of years ago used ACES for the production and the film element was shot in ADX. Dailies of the film and the digital film cameras all matched each other without the need for much of a grade. All the film scans needed were to set the black level on the scope and they were done. Jim Houston Pasadena, CA From carl at stopp.se Sat Nov 22 22:09:12 2014 From: carl at stopp.se (Carl Skaff) Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2014 23:09:12 +0100 Subject: [Tig] Scans from different scanners In-Reply-To: <13C37883-3BB7-4CD6-AB24-464C07D64582@earthlink.net> References: <2421994461923691885@unknownmsgid> <1912211105.6496277.1416428054440.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <34D9A38D-DFA4-4D7E-8BCB-1CEF4AA03895@mac.com> <13C37883-3BB7-4CD6-AB24-464C07D64582@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <-4557236117152796004@unknownmsgid> Is APD a one-for-all setting? I would assume different neg stocks would need different settings. /Carl -- CARL SKAFF COLORIST STOPP/POST PRODUCTION STOPP/STHLM ODENGATAN 104 113 22 STOCKHOLM OFFICE +46 8 507 035 00 <+46%208%20507%20035%2000> STHLM | NYC | LA | LDN WWW.STOPP.SE Follow me on Instagram @Colorist_CarlSkaff 22 nov 2014 kl. 17:37 skrev Jim Houston : On Nov 19, 2014, at 10:56 PM, Darin Wooldridge via Tig wrote: Isn't ACES still in beta. A work in progress? Constantly changing? Not exactly. The scanner work was all completed and standardized in 2012. This isn't changing and neither is the ACES color space. The output preview has been tweaked (just like Kodak tweaked their print films for years) but is getting close to a stable version. Getting scanner manufacturers to provide a built-in ADX setup is a bit of an issue... it is a chicken and egg problem because they won't do it unless users ask for it, and users can't see it because it hasn't been put in. The ASC's ICAS test shoot a couple of years ago used ACES for the production and the film element was shot in ADX. Dailies of the film and the digital film cameras all matched each other with the need for much of a grade. All the film scans needed were to set the black level on the scope and they were done. Jim Houston Pasadena, CA From jdhouston at earthlink.net Sun Nov 23 14:35:15 2014 From: jdhouston at earthlink.net (Jim Houston) Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2014 06:35:15 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Scans from different scanners In-Reply-To: <-4557236117152796004@unknownmsgid> References: <2421994461923691885@unknownmsgid> <1912211105.6496277.1416428054440.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <34D9A38D-DFA4-4D7E-8BCB-1CEF4AA03895@mac.com> <13C37883-3BB7-4CD6-AB24-464C07D64582@earthlink.net> <-4557236117152796004@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <0D4AA3C0-DB93-4B92-BF01-325125637CFF@earthlink.net> On Nov 22, 2014, at 2:09 PM, Carl Skaff wrote: > Is APD a one-for-all setting? I would assume different neg stocks would need different settings. > > /Carl To get the best reproduction from scene color to ADX, then it is not a one-for-all setting. You can calibrate scanners with a scanner calibration roll for each major negative type at the level of say (EXR, Vision, Vision2, Vision3, Fuji). You could also use one APD transform for all negatives, but it is just an average performance of all of the negative stocks (print stocks being quite different). Generally speaking, a certain class of film (like Vision3) can use the same APD calibration since they were designed to operate with each other ? the negs often have the same Printing Density. But most times the exactness of a per negative class conversion isn?t needed, and it is a lot of work, no longer justified by the market. Jim Houston Pasadena, CA From just.love.film at gmail.com Sun Nov 23 18:25:11 2014 From: just.love.film at gmail.com (justin lovell) Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2014 13:25:11 -0500 Subject: [Tig] film restoration software Message-ID: I know this has been discussed many times, but looking for some new insight. Thoughts on film restoration software? I've tested pf clean, Diamant dustbuster +, Algosoft. *Pf clean* had the best interface, and allowed prores files without needing to convert to dpx sequences. *Dustbuster +* gave me the best results and excellent fine tuning controls. Very good customer support around development and improving the software. (scratch removal is getting better). *Algosoft* - still in development with some promising results. UI is old, and very windows xp ish. Mainly an automated one touch solution. Not necessarily what I'm after. Approx costs: Dustbuster quotes $18k Pfclean $10k Both have costly yearly upgrade fees. Mti I have not tested Phoenix retouch I have not tested. Anyone have results/opinions they could share? Justin Lovell Cinematographer // Assoc. CSC WWW.JUSTINLOVELL.COM 416.901.5332 m.416.803.1101 twitter/insta: @justin_lovell ?sent with tpyos from my moible ----------------- Justin Lovell Cinematographer | Assoc. CSC WWW.FRAMEDISCREET.COM | WE LOVE FILM w. 416.901.5332 m. 416.803.1101 --------------------------------------------- Recent Projects: 4 Days in April - Mike Weir Story METRIC - Synthetica (Music Video) Titanfall: Free The Frontier From jeffkreines at mindspring.com Sun Nov 23 20:09:48 2014 From: jeffkreines at mindspring.com (Jeff Kreines - Mindspring) Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2014 14:09:48 -0600 Subject: [Tig] film restoration software In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <86DF0C51-1055-459D-B82D-5DF4F6F451E2@mindspring.com> Justin, It all depends on what you need. If you just need dust-busting, Phoenix Touch is very good, and costs about $2700 ? it does automated dustbusting, and manual fixes of larger artifacts, even splotches as long as they don?t obscure the same part of the frame for several frames in a row. Touch can deal with scratches that are very short ? a couple of frames ? and if they wander a lot it might be able to help ? but it won?t deal with conventional scratches that don?t waver. That?s not an easy thing to do ? if you need to fix these one can run another track in Resolve with the image shifted and masked and perhaps slightly blurred to fill in the scratch ? but it?s not perfect. For a lot of fixes, Resolve can be very useful ? repositioning images to deal with bad splices, dealing with registration problems in the original film (either camera problems or printed-in problems), etc. After Effects can be useful for things like warped frames, etc. For me Resolve + Phoenix Touch does most of what I need, with AE in special cases. Jeff Kreines Kinetta > On Nov 23, 2014, at 12:25 PM, justin lovell via Tig wrote: > > Sohonet www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. > RushTera www.RushTera.com supports the TIG. > ===== > > > I know this has been discussed many times, but looking for some new insight. > > Thoughts on film restoration software? > I've tested pf clean, Diamant dustbuster +, Algosoft. > > *Pf clean* had the best interface, and allowed prores files without needing > to convert to dpx sequences. > > *Dustbuster +* gave me the best results and excellent fine tuning controls. > Very good customer support around development and improving the software. > (scratch removal is getting better). > > *Algosoft* - still in development with some promising results. UI is old, > and very windows xp ish. Mainly an automated one touch solution. Not > necessarily what I'm after. > > Approx costs: > Dustbuster quotes $18k > Pfclean $10k > > Both have costly yearly upgrade fees. > > Mti I have not tested > Phoenix retouch I have not tested. > > Anyone have results/opinions they could share? > > Justin Lovell > Cinematographer // Assoc. CSC > WWW.JUSTINLOVELL.COM > > 416.901.5332 m.416.803.1101 > twitter/insta: @justin_lovell > > ?sent with tpyos from my moible > ----------------- > Justin Lovell > Cinematographer | Assoc. CSC > > WWW.FRAMEDISCREET.COM | WE LOVE FILM > w. 416.901.5332 m. 416.803.1101 > > --------------------------------------------- > Recent Projects: > 4 Days in April - Mike Weir Story > METRIC - Synthetica (Music Video) > Titanfall: Free The Frontier > _______________________________________________ > http://colorist.org > To change subscription options, see http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig From kevin.j.wheatley at gmail.com Mon Nov 24 09:44:34 2014 From: kevin.j.wheatley at gmail.com (Kevin Wheatley) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 09:44:34 +0000 Subject: [Tig] Scans from different scanners In-Reply-To: <0D4AA3C0-DB93-4B92-BF01-325125637CFF@earthlink.net> References: <2421994461923691885@unknownmsgid> <1912211105.6496277.1416428054440.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <34D9A38D-DFA4-4D7E-8BCB-1CEF4AA03895@mac.com> <13C37883-3BB7-4CD6-AB24-464C07D64582@earthlink.net> <-4557236117152796004@unknownmsgid> <0D4AA3C0-DB93-4B92-BF01-325125637CFF@earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Sun, Nov 23, 2014 at 2:35 PM, Jim Houston via Tig wrote: > You could also use one APD transform for all negatives, but it is just an average performance > of all of the negative stocks (print stocks being quite different). Generally speaking, > a certain class of film (like Vision3) can use the same APD calibration since they > were designed to operate with each other ? the negs often have the same Printing Density. for anybody going down this route, you might want to use different targets for base measurements, else you'll get colour casts in the scans. In fact even with a per stock calibration you will probably benefit from specific offsets for base. This will allow you to scan negatives and place a grey card reasonably close to the ideal and be approximately neutral. This was most useful when sending VFX vendors scans as it means they didn't immediately reject scans for being coloured :-) What we did was to determine code values for each of the three records that represent neutral in the printing density space, for example '445, 445, 445' from that we would calculate where on the specific negative stock a typical grey card exposure would be, then determine an amount above base that this would be, and use that to give RGB targets for the scanned base. The pragmatic approach is to shoot an actual gray card and adjust until you get what you want, but if you do it non-analytically you should use an average of several grey card shoots. > But most times the exactness of a per negative class conversion isn?t needed, > and it is a lot of work, no longer justified by the market. That is for sure Kevin From mbtoyama at uol.com.br Fri Nov 28 08:48:01 2014 From: mbtoyama at uol.com.br (Mauricio Toyama) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2014 06:48:01 -0200 Subject: [Tig] film restoration software In-Reply-To: ["CAOwwtBv5O9VWrxaVbBzgpb2SHr-S3bRHSiFYnzmZeJu92i-2ag@mail.gmail.com"] References: ["CAOwwtBv5O9VWrxaVbBzgpb2SHr-S3bRHSiFYnzmZeJu92i-2ag@mail.gmail.com"] Message-ID: <547836c17839e_6b921581546973ec125b4@a4-weasel3.mail> Hi There is one more restoration software... PF clean ? Toyz _________________________________________________________________ De: tig at colorist.org Enviada: Domingo, 23 de Novembro de 2014 13:25 Para: tig at colorist.org Assunto: [Tig] film restoration software Sohonet [1]www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. RushTera [2]www.RushTera.com supports the TIG. ===== I know this has been discussed many times, but looking for some new insight. Thoughts on film restoration software? I've tested pf clean, Diamant dustbuster +, Algosoft. *Pf clean* had the best interface, and allowed prores files without needing to convert to dpx sequences. *Dustbuster +* gave me the best results and excellent fine tuning controls. Very good customer support around development and improving the software. (scratch removal is getting better). *Algosoft* - still in development with some promising results. UI is old, and very windows xp ish. Mainly an automated one touch solution. Not necessarily what I'm after. Approx costs: Dustbuster quotes $18k Pfclean $10k Both have costly yearly upgrade fees. Mti I have not tested Phoenix retouch I have not tested. Anyone have results/opinions they could share? Justin Lovell Cinematographer // Assoc. CSC WWW.JUSTINLOVELL.COM 416.901.5332 m.416.803.1101 twitter/insta: @justin_lovell ??sent with tpyos from my moible ----------------- Justin Lovell Cinematographer | Assoc. CSC WWW.FRAMEDISCREET.COM | WE LOVE FILM w. 416.901.5332 m. 416.803.1101 --------------------------------------------- Recent Projects: 4 Days in April - Mike Weir Story <[3]http://vimeo.com/62198131> METRIC - Synthetica (Music Video) <[4]http://youtu.be/d6h_WPICwr8> Titanfall: Free The Frontier <[5]http://youtu.be/TV_7Rjly8s0> _______________________________________________ [6]http://colorist.org To change subscription options, see [7]http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig References 1. http://www.sohonet.co.uk/ 2. http://www.RushTera.com/ 3. http://vimeo.com/62198131 4. http://youtu.be/d6h_WPICwr8 5. http://youtu.be/TV_7Rjly8s0 6. http://colorist.org/ 7. http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig From jim at jimwicks.com Fri Nov 28 12:21:25 2014 From: jim at jimwicks.com (Jim Wicks) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2014 07:21:25 -0500 Subject: [Tig] film restoration software In-Reply-To: <547836c17839e_6b921581546973ec125b4@a4-weasel3.mail> References: <["CAOwwtBv5O9VWrxaVbBzgpb2SHr-S3bRHSiFYnzmZeJu92i-2ag@mail.gmail.com"]> <547836c17839e_6b921581546973ec125b4@a4-weasel3.mail> Message-ID: <29EAE232-F9E6-44BE-A386-94F0D69CE0B1@jimwicks.com> We?re in the market for a restoration software program to replace DaVinci Revival, which is EOL. Our pipeline is 2K and 4K uncompressed DPX. We demo?d PFClean, based on recommendations. The Pixel Farm was very accommodating, easy to work with during the demo. My restoration artists enjoyed being back on a Mac (Revival is running on Linux machines in our shop). In the end, they found PFClean to be slow on 2K uncompressed DPX. Works faster if used on proxies, which is not suitable for our workflow. Also, the video tutorials supplied by The Pixel Farm were all based on a previous UI - not the current software release. This week we have a Phoenix being installed on a Windows machine for a month-long demo. David Catt is driving down from Atlanta to do the install. Have heard very good things about Phoenix and hope most are true. I?ll update you after my crew has finished their demo. Best, Jim west palm beach, florida, usa website: www.JimWicks.com telephone: +1 (561) 721.5187 email: jim at jimwicks.com > On Nov 28, 2014, at 3:48 AM, Mauricio Toyama via Tig wrote: > > Sohonet www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. > RushTera www.RushTera.com supports the TIG. > ===== > > > > Hi > There is one more restoration software... > PF clean > ? > Toyz > _________________________________________________________________ > > De: tig at colorist.org > Enviada: Domingo, 23 de Novembro de 2014 13:25 > Para: tig at colorist.org > Assunto: [Tig] film restoration software > Sohonet [1]www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. > RushTera [2]www.RushTera.com supports the TIG. > ===== > I know this has been discussed many times, but looking for some new insight. > Thoughts on film restoration software? > I've tested pf clean, Diamant dustbuster +, Algosoft. > *Pf clean* had the best interface, and allowed prores files without needing > to convert to dpx sequences. > *Dustbuster +* gave me the best results and excellent fine tuning controls. > Very good customer support around development and improving the software. > (scratch removal is getting better). > *Algosoft* - still in development with some promising results. UI is old, > and very windows xp ish. Mainly an automated one touch solution. Not > necessarily what I'm after. > Approx costs: > Dustbuster quotes $18k > Pfclean $10k > Both have costly yearly upgrade fees. > Mti I have not tested > Phoenix retouch I have not tested. > Anyone have results/opinions they could share? > Justin Lovell > Cinematographer // Assoc. CSC > WWW.JUSTINLOVELL.COM > 416.901.5332 m.416.803.1101 > twitter/insta: @justin_lovell > ??sent with tpyos from my moible > ----------------- > Justin Lovell > Cinematographer | Assoc. CSC > WWW.FRAMEDISCREET.COM | WE LOVE FILM > w. 416.901.5332 m. 416.803.1101 > --------------------------------------------- > Recent Projects: > 4 Days in April - Mike Weir Story <[3]http://vimeo.com/62198131> > METRIC - Synthetica (Music Video) <[4]http://youtu.be/d6h_WPICwr8> > Titanfall: Free The Frontier <[5]http://youtu.be/TV_7Rjly8s0> > _______________________________________________ > [6]http://colorist.org > To change subscription options, see > [7]http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig > > References > > 1. http://www.sohonet.co.uk/ > 2. http://www.RushTera.com/ > 3. http://vimeo.com/62198131 > 4. http://youtu.be/d6h_WPICwr8 > 5. http://youtu.be/TV_7Rjly8s0 > 6. http://colorist.org/ > 7. http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig > _______________________________________________ > http://colorist.org > To change subscription options, see http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig From fmushel at nyc.rr.com Fri Nov 28 15:53:55 2014 From: fmushel at nyc.rr.com (Fredric Mushel) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2014 10:53:55 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Sam Holtz Memorial Mailing List Message-ID: Rob, How may I join the Sam Holtz mailing list? I first met Sam (and his wife) in 1988 at a family affair in San Francisco. Turned out he is my mother?s sister?s husband?s nephew. I saw Sam at several future family affairs and at NAB?s. I would appreciate it I could be added to the list. Thanks, Fred Mushel From fmushel at nyc.rr.com Fri Nov 28 16:25:31 2014 From: fmushel at nyc.rr.com (Fredric Mushel) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2014 11:25:31 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Sam Holtz Memorial Mailing List In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <804C5E6B-CB87-4B1F-8948-00AD6A08FA05@nyc.rr.com> > On Nov 28, 2014, at 10:53 AM, Fredric Mushel via Tig wrote: > > Sohonet www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. > RushTera www.RushTera.com supports the TIG. > ===== > > > Rob, > > How may I join the Sam Holtz MEMORIAL > mailing list? > > I first met Sam (and his wife) in 1988 at a family affair in San Francisco. Turned out he is my mother?s sister?s husband?s nephew. > > I saw Sam at several future family affairs and at NAB?s. > > I would appreciate it I could be added to the list. > > Thanks, > > Fred Mushel > _______________________________________________ > http://colorist.org > To change subscription options, see http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig From rob at colorist.org Fri Nov 28 19:12:59 2014 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2014 13:12:59 -0600 Subject: [Tig] Sam Holtz Memorial Mailing List In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Fred, The Sam Holtz Mem Mailing List was provided for purposes of announcements. If you'd like to add something to the Sam Holtz wiki page on the TIG site, by all means. Send it to me and I'll add.... The page is at colorist.org/wiki/index.php/Sam_Holtz Rob Lingelbach http://rob.colorist.org > On Nov 28, 2014, at 9:53 AM, Fredric Mushel via Tig wrote: > > ===== > > > Rob, > > How may I join the Sam Holtz mailing list? > > I first met Sam (and his wife) in 1988 at a family affair in San Francisco. Turned out he is my mother?s sister?s husband?s nephew. From just.love.film at gmail.com Sat Nov 29 20:34:25 2014 From: just.love.film at gmail.com (justin lovell) Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2014 15:34:25 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Tig Digest, Vol 361, Issue 1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey Jim, The new version of pf clean is pretty fast from my tests. I have a version of Phoenix touch. Just got an evaluation license for pc will be testing this week. Is that the version you are trying? You should also try dustbuster + from hsart. Speak with Franz. I have been most impressed with their support and results. Justin Lovell Cinematographer // Assoc. CSC WWW.JUSTINLOVELL.COM 416.901.5332 m.416.803.1101 twitter/insta: @justin_lovell ?sent with tpyos from my moible From jim at jimwicks.com Sat Nov 29 22:09:42 2014 From: jim at jimwicks.com (Jim Wicks) Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2014 17:09:42 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Tig Digest, Vol 361, Issue 1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <86A9222E-05E4-4DC1-ACDE-2BC9548D7921@jimwicks.com> Hi Justin, We had the new version of PFClean also. What material were you working on? Our pipeline is 2K and 4K uncompressed DPX only, which resulted in slower speeds. Each artist on my restoration team does 3,000 frames per shift per day. But that?s using Revival running on a Linux system. Our measurement, as we look for an alternative to Revival, is to match that output or better it. We had high hopes for PFClean, it just didn?t come through for us. Best, Jim west palm beach, florida, usa website: www.JimWicks.com telephone: +1 (561) 721.5187 email: jim at jimwicks.com > On Nov 29, 2014, at 3:34 PM, justin lovell via Tig wrote: > > Sohonet www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. > RushTera www.RushTera.com supports the TIG. > ===== > > > Hey Jim, > > The new version of pf clean is pretty fast from my tests. > > I have a version of Phoenix touch. Just got an evaluation license for pc > will be testing this week. Is that the version you are trying? > > You should also try dustbuster + from hsart. Speak with Franz. I have > been most impressed with their support and results. > > Justin Lovell > Cinematographer // Assoc. CSC > WWW.JUSTINLOVELL.COM > > 416.901.5332 m.416.803.1101 > twitter/insta: @justin_lovell > > ?sent with tpyos from my moible > _______________________________________________ > http://colorist.org > To change subscription options, see http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig From just.love.film at gmail.com Sat Nov 29 22:32:38 2014 From: just.love.film at gmail.com (justin lovell) Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2014 17:32:38 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Tig Digest, Vol 361, Issue 1 In-Reply-To: <86A9222E-05E4-4DC1-ACDE-2BC9548D7921@jimwicks.com> References: <86A9222E-05E4-4DC1-ACDE-2BC9548D7921@jimwicks.com> Message-ID: Ah, that may be the difference. I was testing with prores 2k files. Pf clean is one of the few that let's you work with them directly. We have a titan 6gb video card and 24gb ram which helps speed things up. Dustbuster + works with dpx. They are working on a solution to use other file formats to save having to convert if your source is not dpx. Justin Lovell Cinematographer // Assoc. CSC WWW.JUSTINLOVELL.COM 416.901.5332 m.416.803.1101 twitter/insta: @justin_lovell ?sent with tpyos from my moible From grace at scanbox.tv Sat Nov 29 22:32:52 2014 From: grace at scanbox.tv (Grace McKay) Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2014 14:32:52 -0800 Subject: [Tig] film restoration software In-Reply-To: <86A9222E-05E4-4DC1-ACDE-2BC9548D7921@jimwicks.com> References: <86A9222E-05E4-4DC1-ACDE-2BC9548D7921@jimwicks.com> Message-ID: <547A4994.2080303@scanbox.tv> Could the speed be a function of the computer hardware it is running on? I expect your Linux systems are older. Is your test MAC the new Mac Pro? Could there be a Windows or Hackintosh solution that runs faster? And a question for me. Is the Linux Revival system totally obsolete and not worth using into the future? Grace McKay Electric Pictures Spirit High Definition Motion Picture Telecine Scanning *ElectricPictures.tv* *949-838-0001* On 11/29/2014 2:09 PM, Jim Wicks via Tig wrote: > Sohonet www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. > RushTera www.RushTera.com supports the TIG. > ===== > > > Hi Justin, > > We had the new version of PFClean also. > What material were you working on? > Our pipeline is 2K and 4K uncompressed DPX only, which resulted in slower speeds. > > Each artist on my restoration team does 3,000 frames per shift per day. > But that?s using Revival running on a Linux system. > Our measurement, as we look for an alternative to Revival, is to match that output or better it. > > We had high hopes for PFClean, it just didn?t come through for us. > > Best, Jim > > > > > > > > west palm beach, florida, usa > website: www.JimWicks.com > telephone: +1 (561) 721.5187 > email: jim at jimwicks.com > > > > > >> On Nov 29, 2014, at 3:34 PM, justin lovell via Tig wrote: >> >> Sohonet www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. >> RushTera www.RushTera.com supports the TIG. >> ===== >> >> >> Hey Jim, >> >> The new version of pf clean is pretty fast from my tests. >> >> I have a version of Phoenix touch. Just got an evaluation license for pc >> will be testing this week. Is that the version you are trying? >> >> You should also try dustbuster + from hsart. Speak with Franz. I have >> been most impressed with their support and results. >> >> Justin Lovell >> Cinematographer // Assoc. CSC >> WWW.JUSTINLOVELL.COM >> >> 416.901.5332 m.416.803.1101 >> twitter/insta: @justin_lovell >> >> ?sent with tpyos from my moible >> _______________________________________________ >> http://colorist.org >> To change subscription options, see http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig > _______________________________________________ > http://colorist.org > To change subscription options, see http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig From jim at jimwicks.com Sat Nov 29 22:55:23 2014 From: jim at jimwicks.com (Jim Wicks) Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2014 17:55:23 -0500 Subject: [Tig] film restoration software In-Reply-To: <547A4994.2080303@scanbox.tv> References: <86A9222E-05E4-4DC1-ACDE-2BC9548D7921@jimwicks.com> <547A4994.2080303@scanbox.tv> Message-ID: <8940CC6A-39F4-4E58-A296-9CF197F2E819@jimwicks.com> Justin, Thanks for the info. I suspected as much. PFClean is fast - just not with 2K and 4K uncompressed DPX (unless proxies). Grace, DaVinci Revival is EOL - as not announced by Blackmagic Design this year. It?s just gone from their website. We purchased 8 Linux units a few years ago, and the machines still run like the roadrunner. With Revival EOL, it was decided to see what other options we might want to look at. The Mac we did the PFCLean test on was a late 2012 12 core Mac, 40GIG of RAM, 2 Titan cards in a Cubix Expander Chassis. We suspect that even with a new tubular Mac, the speed would have been a problem for us. From our discussions with The Pixel Farm, 2K and 4K uncompressed DPX is and was the issue. PFClean runs just fine using DPX proxies - but that?s not our pipeline. So, after testing it for a month - we decided to look at Phoenix next. Best, Jim west palm beach, florida, usa website: www.JimWicks.com telephone: +1 (561) 721.5187 email: jim at jimwicks.com > On Nov 29, 2014, at 5:32 PM, Grace McKay via Tig wrote: > > Sohonet www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. > RushTera www.RushTera.com supports the TIG. > ===== > > > Could the speed be a function of the computer hardware it is running on? I expect your Linux systems are older. Is your test MAC the new Mac Pro? Could there be a Windows or Hackintosh solution that runs faster? > > And a question for me. Is the Linux Revival system totally obsolete and not worth using into the future? > > Grace McKay > Electric Pictures > Spirit High Definition Motion Picture Telecine Scanning > *ElectricPictures.tv* > *949-838-0001* > > On 11/29/2014 2:09 PM, Jim Wicks via Tig wrote: >> Sohonet www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. >> RushTera www.RushTera.com supports the TIG. >> ===== >> >> >> Hi Justin, >> >> We had the new version of PFClean also. >> What material were you working on? >> Our pipeline is 2K and 4K uncompressed DPX only, which resulted in slower speeds. >> >> Each artist on my restoration team does 3,000 frames per shift per day. >> But that?s using Revival running on a Linux system. >> Our measurement, as we look for an alternative to Revival, is to match that output or better it. >> >> We had high hopes for PFClean, it just didn?t come through for us. >> >> Best, Jim >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> west palm beach, florida, usa >> website: www.JimWicks.com >> telephone: +1 (561) 721.5187 >> email: jim at jimwicks.com >> >> >> >> >>> On Nov 29, 2014, at 3:34 PM, justin lovell via Tig wrote: >>> >>> Sohonet www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. >>> RushTera www.RushTera.com supports the TIG. >>> ===== >>> >>> >>> Hey Jim, >>> >>> The new version of pf clean is pretty fast from my tests. >>> >>> I have a version of Phoenix touch. Just got an evaluation license for pc >>> will be testing this week. Is that the version you are trying? >>> >>> You should also try dustbuster + from hsart. Speak with Franz. I have >>> been most impressed with their support and results. >>> >>> Justin Lovell >>> Cinematographer // Assoc. CSC >>> WWW.JUSTINLOVELL.COM >>> >>> 416.901.5332 m.416.803.1101 >>> twitter/insta: @justin_lovell >>> >>> ?sent with tpyos from my moible >>> _______________________________________________ >>> http://colorist.org >>> To change subscription options, see http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig >> _______________________________________________ >> http://colorist.org >> To change subscription options, see http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig > > _______________________________________________ > http://colorist.org > To change subscription options, see http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig From just.love.film at gmail.com Sun Nov 30 18:59:05 2014 From: just.love.film at gmail.com (justin lovell) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 13:59:05 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Tig Digest, Vol 361, Issue 1 In-Reply-To: References: <86A9222E-05E4-4DC1-ACDE-2BC9548D7921@jimwicks.com> Message-ID: How do you price out your restoration services? It's difficult to find rates around this and I have a couple clients asking about it. Is there a standard pricing method? Per foot, per frame per minute? Hourly rate for technician/suite? Semi-automated vs fully manual? Workflow around this so client expectations aren't higher then what is capable for their budget? Trying to navigate this within industry standard rates. Justin Lovell Cinematographer // Assoc. CSC WWW.JUSTINLOVELL.COM 416.901.5332 m.416.803.1101 twitter/insta: @justin_lovell ?sent with tpyos from my moible From perry at gammaraydigital.com Sun Nov 30 19:20:52 2014 From: perry at gammaraydigital.com (Perry Paolantonio) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 14:20:52 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Tig Digest, Vol 361, Issue 1 In-Reply-To: References: <86A9222E-05E4-4DC1-ACDE-2BC9548D7921@jimwicks.com> Message-ID: <9A7594AA-D216-4683-9CB8-409C87FCC777@gammaraydigital.com> We charge hourly, but it's hard to do an estimate without seeing the footage. We don't do any automated dust busting or restoration work, strictly manual. In almost 10 years of doing digital restoration work I've yet to find an automated tool that works well. Every time we try one we end up spending more time doing QC and repair work on the (automated) repairs than we would just going through the whole thing a frame at a time. It's not cheap but the results are far superior. -perry --- Perry Paolantonio, Gamma Ray Digital, Inc. 2k Film Scanning - Blu-ray - DVD - Film Restoration t 617 379 0381 | www.gammaraydigital.com | Tw: @gammaraydigital | FB:www.facebook.com/gammaraydigital > On Nov 30, 2014, at 1:59 PM, justin lovell via Tig wrote: > > Sohonet www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. > RushTera www.RushTera.com supports the TIG. > ===== > > > How do you price out your restoration services? > > It's difficult to find rates around this and I have a couple clients asking > about it. Is there a standard pricing method? > Per foot, per frame per minute? > Hourly rate for technician/suite? > Semi-automated vs fully manual? > Workflow around this so client expectations aren't higher then what is > capable for their budget? > > Trying to navigate this within industry standard rates. > > Justin Lovell > Cinematographer // Assoc. CSC > WWW.JUSTINLOVELL.COM > > 416.901.5332 m.416.803.1101 > twitter/insta: @justin_lovell > > ?sent with tpyos from my moible > _______________________________________________ > http://colorist.org > To change subscription options, see http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig From jim at jimwicks.com Sun Nov 30 20:12:37 2014 From: jim at jimwicks.com (Jim Wicks) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 15:12:37 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Tig Digest, Vol 361, Issue 1 In-Reply-To: References: <86A9222E-05E4-4DC1-ACDE-2BC9548D7921@jimwicks.com> Message-ID: <0189F957-A034-4E5C-A3E8-218292C19CAC@jimwicks.com> Hi Justin, I suppose every company has its own way of doing things. The company that I work for, Olympusat, Inc., has a very different business model than most. Olympusat is a vertical media company. We own or co-own all our film catalogs, the scanner, restoration, color, including all the cable channels that they appear on. In West Palm Beach, where our company is headquartered, I have more than a dozen members on my team, including restoration artists, audio specialists, colorists, and a conform artist. We also have a Mexico City division, which includes many more restoration artists, and scanning and telecine operators. In as much as I am Senior Colorist and Manager of Film Restoration Services, I am not deeply involved in the business side of things. But I believe our costs to clients is calculated per frame. Our client services include: scanning, restoration, color, and that?s in addition to full HD to 6K production and post production facilities. The owner of the company, in my opinion, is a visionary - who?s only edict to me when he hired me nearly 4 years ago was, ?I only ever want to do it right.? We have, and we do. Hope this answers some of your questions. Best, Jim west palm beach, florida, usa website: www.JimWicks.com telephone: +1 (561) 721.5187 email: jim at jimwicks.com > On Nov 30, 2014, at 1:59 PM, justin lovell wrote: > > How do you price out your restoration services? > > It's difficult to find rates around this and I have a couple clients asking about it. Is there a standard pricing method? > Per foot, per frame per minute? > Hourly rate for technician/suite? > Semi-automated vs fully manual? > Workflow around this so client expectations aren't higher then what is capable for their budget? > > Trying to navigate this within industry standard rates. > > Justin Lovell > Cinematographer // Assoc. CSC > WWW.JUSTINLOVELL.COM > 416.901.5332 m.416.803.1101 > twitter/insta: @justin_lovell > > ?sent with tpyos from my moible >