From joav at dbdigital.co.il Tue Feb 2 14:31:04 2016 From: joav at dbdigital.co.il (Joav Shdema) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2016 16:31:04 +0200 Subject: [Tig] Blackmagic Design Scanner In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I had a lengthy check of this scanner and was under impressed with what I saw. It will be interesting to learn what others do think / use it for *Joav ShdemaManaging PartnerDB DigitalExpert Film-Video-Audio Restorationwww.dbdigital.co.il * On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 6:44 AM, Lorne Miess via Tig wrote: > Sohonet www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. > ===== > > > Hi, > > I'm looking to get some information on the scanner itself as far as optical > audio, magnetic sound and PTR rollers and was looking for some other users > if you can help me out please let me know? > > -- > > > thanks > > Lorne > > Lorne Miess > Colourist / Digital Imaging Technician IATSE669 > Vancouver, British Columbia > 604-240-3323 (C) > lorne.miess at gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > http://colorist.org > To change subscription options, see > http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig > From tig at onlinevideo.ch Tue Feb 2 15:33:52 2016 From: tig at onlinevideo.ch (Roger Koller) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2016 16:33:52 +0100 Subject: [Tig] Blackmagic Design Scanner In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0989664D-6356-4B28-B09F-22564F7EF86D@onlinevideo.ch> Hi Joav we are currently looking at the machine and have mixed feelings about its quality. Especially how good the UHD quality/sharpness really is.. what are your main concerns about it ? best Roger Head of Postproduction On Line Video 46 AG On 02.02.2016, at 15:31, Joav Shdema via Tig wrote: > Sohonet www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. > ===== > > > I had a lengthy check of this scanner and was under impressed with what I > saw. > It will be interesting to learn what others do think / use it for > > > *Joav ShdemaManaging PartnerDB DigitalExpert Film-Video-Audio > Restorationwww.dbdigital.co.il * > > On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 6:44 AM, Lorne Miess via Tig > wrote: > >> Sohonet www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. >> ===== >> >> >> Hi, >> >> I'm looking to get some information on the scanner itself as far as optical >> audio, magnetic sound and PTR rollers and was looking for some other users >> if you can help me out please let me know? >> >> -- >> >> >> thanks >> >> Lorne >> >> Lorne Miess >> Colourist / Digital Imaging Technician IATSE669 >> Vancouver, British Columbia >> 604-240-3323 (C) >> lorne.miess at gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> http://colorist.org >> To change subscription options, see >> http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig >> > _______________________________________________ > http://colorist.org > To change subscription options, see http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig From grace at scanbox.tv Tue Feb 2 18:05:13 2016 From: grace at scanbox.tv (Grace McKay) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2016 10:05:13 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Blackmagic Design Scanner In-Reply-To: <0989664D-6356-4B28-B09F-22564F7EF86D@onlinevideo.ch> References: <0989664D-6356-4B28-B09F-22564F7EF86D@onlinevideo.ch> Message-ID: <56B0EFD9.40804@scanbox.tv> One thing I have noticed from the spec sheet on the BMD website-- the lens appears to be fixed and they frame 16 mm by using "area of interest" , basically digital zoom, so anything less than 35mm will be much less than UHD- https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/cintel/techspecs Effective Resolutions 3840 x 2880 - Super 35 3390 x 2864 - Standard 35 3390 x 2465 - Anamorphic 35 1903 x 1143 - Super 16 1581 x 1154 - Standard 16 Also, no audio option anymore, I guess (again) Audio Extraction from scanned image. ** Grace McKay Electric Pictures Spirit High Definition Motion Picture Telecine Scanning *ElectricPictures.tv* *949-838-0001* On 2/2/2016 7:33 AM, Roger Koller via Tig wrote: > Sohonet www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. > ===== > > > Hi Joav > > we are currently looking at the machine and have mixed feelings about its quality. Especially how good the UHD quality/sharpness really is.. > what are your main concerns about it ? > > best > Roger > > Head of Postproduction > On Line Video 46 AG > > On 02.02.2016, at 15:31, Joav Shdema via Tig wrote: > >> Sohonet www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. >> ===== >> >> >> I had a lengthy check of this scanner and was under impressed with what I >> saw. >> It will be interesting to learn what others do think / use it for >> >> >> *Joav ShdemaManaging PartnerDB DigitalExpert Film-Video-Audio >> Restorationwww.dbdigital.co.il * >> >> On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 6:44 AM, Lorne Miess via Tig >> wrote: >> >>> Sohonet www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. >>> ===== >>> >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I'm looking to get some information on the scanner itself as far as optical >>> audio, magnetic sound and PTR rollers and was looking for some other users >>> if you can help me out please let me know? >>> >>> -- >>> >>> >>> thanks >>> >>> Lorne >>> >>> Lorne Miess >>> Colourist / Digital Imaging Technician IATSE669 >>> Vancouver, British Columbia >>> 604-240-3323 (C) >>> lorne.miess at gmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> http://colorist.org >>> To change subscription options, see >>> http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://colorist.org >> To change subscription options, see http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig > > _______________________________________________ > http://colorist.org > To change subscription options, see http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig From tedlangdell at gmail.com Tue Feb 2 18:41:04 2016 From: tedlangdell at gmail.com (Ted Langdell) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2016 10:41:04 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Blackmagic Design Scanner--Other choices... literally :) In-Reply-To: <56B0EFD9.40804@scanbox.tv> References: <0989664D-6356-4B28-B09F-22564F7EF86D@onlinevideo.ch> <56B0EFD9.40804@scanbox.tv> Message-ID: <343CE8A0-199A-44D1-A7E4-DEFB441BE120@gmail.com> There are other scanner options that don?t use ?area of interest? and provide a full package of capabilities. One example: The compact sized MWA Nova Choice is now able to do 35mm as an option in addition to the standard 8mm/Super8, 9.5, 16mm, and optionally, 17.5 and 28mm. Optical image size, focus and pan is used rather than area of interest. Sensors include full 4K 4096 x 3072 or 2336 x 1752 (visible pixels)at 12-bits. MWA?s very stable Laser-based perf detection has been joined by a real-time, during scan, software based image stabilization module that uses two user-selected points in the frame (say, the inside edges of two left 35mm perfs.) Standard package sound capabilities include 8/Super8 mag from both main and balance stripes, 16mm mag stripe (news film and edge track full coat) and 16mm optical sound. For 35mm, 35mm stereo white light optical is standard, and there are other options for white light mono, red light stereo (Cyan and magenta prints) and a variety of Mag pickups that could be used with full coat. I believe the factory also has a head for four-track ?Fox? format prints from the 1950s. A variety of file type and codec capabilities are offered, including ProRes up to and including 4444. Includes workstation w/internal RAID storage, MWA flashsuite 2 scanner control/processing software, connectivity options for moving files or scanning to a SAN. Metadata features can integrate with DAM/MAM software. Sensors, optics and workstations can be upgraded as new technology comes along. New pricing :) Product made to order. In use worldwide since 2013. Hope this is helpful and hasn?t become a sales pitch. Per the TIG posting requirements, I am the North American distributor for MWA products. Ted Ted Langdell flashscan8.us Moving Image Tool and Technology Store iPhone: (530) 301-2931 (Preferred) Office: (530) 741-1212 ted at flashscan8.us Skype: TedLangdell See us at NAB 2016, April 18-21, Lower South Hall Booth SL14813. Free exhibit pass code LV3654 can now be used for registration. On Feb 2, 2016, at 10:05 AM, Grace McKay via Tig wrote: > Sohonet www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. > ===== > > > One thing I have noticed from the spec sheet on the BMD website-- the lens appears to be fixed and they frame 16 mm by using "area of interest" , basically digital zoom, so anything less than 35mm will be much less than UHD- https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/cintel/techspecs > > > > > Effective Resolutions > > 3840 x 2880 - Super 35 > > 3390 x 2864 - Standard 35 > > 3390 x 2465 - Anamorphic 35 > > 1903 x 1143 - Super 16 > > 1581 x 1154 - Standard 16 > > > > Also, no audio option anymore, I guess (again) > > > > > Audio > > Extraction from scanned image. > > > > > ** > Grace McKay > Electric Pictures > Spirit High Definition Motion Picture Telecine Scanning > *ElectricPictures.tv* > *949-838-0001* > > On 2/2/2016 7:33 AM, Roger Koller via Tig wrote: >> Sohonet www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. >> ===== >> >> >> Hi Joav >> >> we are currently looking at the machine and have mixed feelings about its quality. Especially how good the UHD quality/sharpness really is.. >> what are your main concerns about it ? >> >> best >> Roger >> >> Head of Postproduction >> On Line Video 46 AG >> >> On 02.02.2016, at 15:31, Joav Shdema via Tig wrote: >> >>> Sohonet www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. >>> ===== >>> >>> >>> I had a lengthy check of this scanner and was under impressed with what I >>> saw. >>> It will be interesting to learn what others do think / use it for >>> >>> >>> *Joav ShdemaManaging PartnerDB DigitalExpert Film-Video-Audio >>> Restorationwww.dbdigital.co.il * >>> >>> On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 6:44 AM, Lorne Miess via Tig >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Sohonet www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. >>>> ===== >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> I'm looking to get some information on the scanner itself as far as optical >>>> audio, magnetic sound and PTR rollers and was looking for some other users >>>> if you can help me out please let me know? >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> >>>> thanks >>>> >>>> Lorne >>>> >>>> Lorne Miess >>>> Colourist / Digital Imaging Technician IATSE669 >>>> Vancouver, British Columbia >>>> 604-240-3323 (C) >>>> lorne.miess at gmail.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> http://colorist.org >>>> To change subscription options, see >>>> http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> http://colorist.org >>> To change subscription options, see http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://colorist.org >> To change subscription options, see http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig > > _______________________________________________ > http://colorist.org > To change subscription options, see http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig From jeffkreines at mindspring.com Tue Feb 2 19:34:20 2016 From: jeffkreines at mindspring.com (Jeff Kreines - Mindspring) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2016 13:34:20 -0600 Subject: [Tig] Blackmagic Design Scanner--Other choices... literally :) In-Reply-To: <343CE8A0-199A-44D1-A7E4-DEFB441BE120@gmail.com> References: <0989664D-6356-4B28-B09F-22564F7EF86D@onlinevideo.ch> <56B0EFD9.40804@scanbox.tv> <343CE8A0-199A-44D1-A7E4-DEFB441BE120@gmail.com> Message-ID: <6184A06E-42F0-4986-A5E6-22A6D791631A@mindspring.com> > On Feb 2, 2016, at 12:41 PM, Ted Langdell via Tig wrote: > > There are other scanner options that don?t use ?area of interest? and provide a full package of capabilities. > > One example: There are other examples, too, Ted! Jeff Kreines Kinetta From jeffkreines at mindspring.com Tue Feb 2 19:36:40 2016 From: jeffkreines at mindspring.com (Jeff Kreines - Mindspring) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2016 13:36:40 -0600 Subject: [Tig] Blackmagic Design Scanner In-Reply-To: <56B0EFD9.40804@scanbox.tv> References: <0989664D-6356-4B28-B09F-22564F7EF86D@onlinevideo.ch> <56B0EFD9.40804@scanbox.tv> Message-ID: > On Feb 2, 2016, at 12:05 PM, Grace McKay via Tig wrote: > > 1903 x 1143 - Super 16 I love the fact that S16 doesn?t even get HD resolution. What were they thinking? Jeff Kreines Kinetta From rob at cinelab.com Tue Feb 2 19:58:29 2016 From: rob at cinelab.com (Robert Houllahan) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2016 14:58:29 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Blackmagic Design Scanner In-Reply-To: References: <0989664D-6356-4B28-B09F-22564F7EF86D@onlinevideo.ch> <56B0EFD9.40804@scanbox.tv> Message-ID: <10C7E94E-6C1C-488A-9325-B26D398DCE71@cinelab.com> But does it do Super8mm at 4K? Oh right. > On Feb 2, 2016, at 2:36 PM, Jeff Kreines - Mindspring via Tig wrote: > > Sohonet www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. > ===== > > > >> On Feb 2, 2016, at 12:05 PM, Grace McKay via Tig wrote: >> >> 1903 x 1143 - Super 16 > > I love the fact that S16 doesn?t even get HD resolution. What were they thinking? > > Jeff Kreines > Kinetta > > _______________________________________________ > http://colorist.org > To change subscription options, see http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig Robert Houllahan Scans Colorist Workflow Co-Owner 35MM 16MM 8MM B&W/Color-Lab Scan HD 2K-5K 8MM 16MM 35MM Arrilaser 2K & 4K Film Recording www.cinelab.com https://www.facebook.com/CinelabBoston From rob at cinelab.com Tue Feb 2 19:58:29 2016 From: rob at cinelab.com (Robert Houllahan) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2016 14:58:29 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Blackmagic Design Scanner In-Reply-To: References: <0989664D-6356-4B28-B09F-22564F7EF86D@onlinevideo.ch> <56B0EFD9.40804@scanbox.tv> Message-ID: <10C7E94E-6C1C-488A-9325-B26D398DCE71@cinelab.com> But does it do Super8mm at 4K? Oh right. > On Feb 2, 2016, at 2:36 PM, Jeff Kreines - Mindspring via Tig wrote: > > Sohonet www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. > ===== > > > >> On Feb 2, 2016, at 12:05 PM, Grace McKay via Tig wrote: >> >> 1903 x 1143 - Super 16 > > I love the fact that S16 doesn?t even get HD resolution. What were they thinking? > > Jeff Kreines > Kinetta > > _______________________________________________ > http://colorist.org > To change subscription options, see http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig Robert Houllahan Scans Colorist Workflow Co-Owner 35MM 16MM 8MM B&W/Color-Lab Scan HD 2K-5K 8MM 16MM 35MM Arrilaser 2K & 4K Film Recording www.cinelab.com https://www.facebook.com/CinelabBoston From weagles at bigpond.net.au Tue Feb 2 22:02:51 2016 From: weagles at bigpond.net.au (Warren Eagles) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2016 08:02:51 +1000 Subject: [Tig] Blackmagic Design Scanner In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Great to see people talking about scanners and film on the TIG Rob, maybe this is a good opportunity to drop TIG policy for a one off time and get a company rep from each scanner manufacturer to present the advantages of their scanner. I know from my travels lots of people are looking right now, and some of them don?t have a film/TK/Scanner background. Warren Eagles Colorist Australia T @warreneagles From rob at colorist.org Tue Feb 2 22:21:45 2016 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2016 16:21:45 -0600 Subject: [Tig] Blackmagic Design Scanner In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > On Feb 2, 2016, at 4:02 PM, Warren Eagles via Tig > Great to see people talking about scanners and film on the TIG > Rob, maybe this is a good opportunity to drop TIG policy for a one off time and get a company rep from > each scanner manufacturer to present the advantages of their scanner. Great idea Warren. To the TIG: Scanner makers, sellers, users, the forum is open for complete discussion until further notice (determined by various formulae at the appropriate time). > I know from my travels lots of people are looking right now, and some of them don?t have a film/TK/Scanner background. It will be really good to have the information available and we can post to the TIG webpages, etc. Rob ? TIG admin/founder (25th year!) Rob Lingelbach Literacy Tutor, Minneapolis Public Schools roblingelbach at icloud.com http://lingelbach.us From carlskaff.colorist at gmail.com Tue Feb 2 22:47:30 2016 From: carlskaff.colorist at gmail.com (CarlSkaff.Colorist) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2016 23:47:30 +0100 Subject: [Tig] Blackmagic Design Scanner In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: All scan-ufacturers... Line up and get ready to rumble! /Carl Follow me on Instagram @Colorist_CarlSkaff > 2 feb. 2016 kl. 23:21 skrev Rob Lingelbach via Tig : > > Sohonet www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. > ===== > > > >> On Feb 2, 2016, at 4:02 PM, Warren Eagles via Tig > >> Great to see people talking about scanners and film on the TIG >> Rob, maybe this is a good opportunity to drop TIG policy for a one off time and get a company rep from >> each scanner manufacturer to present the advantages of their scanner. > > Great idea Warren. > > To the TIG: > > Scanner makers, sellers, users, the forum is open for complete discussion until further notice (determined by various formulae at the appropriate time). > >> I know from my travels lots of people are looking right now, and some of them don?t have a film/TK/Scanner background. > > It will be really good to have the information available and we can post to the TIG webpages, etc. > > Rob > ? > TIG admin/founder (25th year!) > > Rob Lingelbach > Literacy Tutor, Minneapolis Public Schools > roblingelbach at icloud.com http://lingelbach.us > > > _______________________________________________ > http://colorist.org > To change subscription options, see http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig From bob at bluescreen.com Wed Feb 3 02:06:58 2016 From: bob at bluescreen.com (Bob Kertesz) Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2016 18:06:58 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Blackmagic Design Scanner In-Reply-To: References: <0989664D-6356-4B28-B09F-22564F7EF86D@onlinevideo.ch> <56B0EFD9.40804@scanbox.tv> Message-ID: >> 1903 x 1143 - Super 16 >I love the fact that S16 doesn?t even get HD resolution. What were they thinking? >Jeff Kreines It's Blackmagic. They were thinking what they always think. How can we make this as absolutely cheaply as possible and still get people to buy into the "it's professional" marketing? Although frankly, the S16 spec is just a few pixels away from full HD. For those who have been in a coma somewhere and are not aware, Mr. Kreines makes an extremely well reviewed and liked scanner. --Bob Bob Kertesz BlueScreen LLC Hollywood, California bob at bluescreen.com DIT, Video Controller, and live compositor extraordinaire. High quality images for more than four decades - whether you've wanted them or not.? From rob at cinelab.com Wed Feb 3 03:36:20 2016 From: rob at cinelab.com (Robert Houllahan) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2016 22:36:20 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Blackmagic Design Scanner and other options. In-Reply-To: References: <0989664D-6356-4B28-B09F-22564F7EF86D@onlinevideo.ch> <56B0EFD9.40804@scanbox.tv> Message-ID: <6E56A62F-101F-4E09-AEFE-58E85AF316D4@cinelab.com> > How can we make this as absolutely cheaply as possible and still get people to > buy into the "it's professional" marketing? Ha! > > Although frankly, the S16 spec is just a few pixels away from full HD. All of the relevant scanner makers scan at 2x or more of the target 2K resolution for S16 and considering these scanners use Bayer sensors the BMD scanner is low res for S16 IMO. We use machines by DCS (Rennie Johnson in LA) they have machines from retrofit TK chassis kits through complete scanners with excellent results and a modular approach which allows end users to choose camera and even write their own camera API. We are using one Xena Oxberry Pin registered machine with a 5K 7.4u pixel Kodak 14bit monochrome sensor and sequential RGB + IR LED illumination and a fast Xena machine with a 4K 12-bit Bayer (CMOS camera capable of 30fps) which uses machine vision perf stabilization, 8mm-16mm-35mm on the fast machine all up to UHD resolution including 8mm. Retrofit kits start around $30K and full machines are up to around $150k www.digitalcinemasystems.net And many shops are using Lasergraphics Scan Station machines, they have two models and options rinclude sound (optical and mag) keycode reading etc. Tthey use a 5K cmos sensor and they seem to have worked out machine vision stabilization and some automatic color balance using RGB ILED lamp etc. Scan Station machines are priced from about $50k with options for many gauges and gates are $5k each http://www.lasergraphics.com/ And of course Jeff Kreines Kinetta machines Robert Houllahan Scans Colorist Workflow Co-Owner 35MM 16MM 8MM B&W/Color-Lab Scan HD 2K-5K 8MM 16MM 35MM Arrilaser 2K & 4K Film Recording www.cinelab.com https://www.facebook.com/CinelabBoston From joav at dbdigital.co.il Wed Feb 3 14:28:53 2016 From: joav at dbdigital.co.il (Joav Shdema) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2016 16:28:53 +0200 Subject: [Tig] Blackmagic Design Scanner In-Reply-To: <0989664D-6356-4B28-B09F-22564F7EF86D@onlinevideo.ch> References: <0989664D-6356-4B28-B09F-22564F7EF86D@onlinevideo.ch> Message-ID: Under impressed is a soften expression to disappointed. To me the Blackmagic scanner looked like the company is trying to sell more of their digital cameras than focusing on the true professional needs of someone involved in film restoration. What I've encountered was: Fixed mediocre optics Optical resolution isn't matched on both gauges No sound options Image quality is not good, faded and diffused Cheap looking mechanical film path with sprockets - a no go when you deal with archival materials No upgrade path options - it is a one box buy as is. I might forget some of the points but the above sums up my initial impression of this unit. Compared to the efforts invested by some of the other manufacturers - it is nowhere there. Cheers *Joav ShdemaManaging PartnerDB DigitalExpert Film-Video-Audio Restorationwww.dbdigital.co.il * On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 5:33 PM, Roger Koller wrote: > Hi Joav > > we are currently looking at the machine and have mixed feelings about its > quality. Especially how good the UHD quality/sharpness really is.. > what are your main concerns about it ? > > best > Roger > > Head of Postproduction > On Line Video 46 AG > > On 02.02.2016, at 15:31, Joav Shdema via Tig wrote: > > > Sohonet www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. > > ===== > > > > > > I had a lengthy check of this scanner and was under impressed with what I > > saw. > > It will be interesting to learn what others do think / use it for > > > > > > *Joav ShdemaManaging PartnerDB DigitalExpert Film-Video-Audio > > Restorationwww.dbdigital.co.il * > > > > On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 6:44 AM, Lorne Miess via Tig > > wrote: > > > >> Sohonet www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. > >> ===== > >> > >> > >> Hi, > >> > >> I'm looking to get some information on the scanner itself as far as > optical > >> audio, magnetic sound and PTR rollers and was looking for some other > users > >> if you can help me out please let me know? > >> > >> -- > >> > >> > >> thanks > >> > >> Lorne > >> > >> Lorne Miess > >> Colourist / Digital Imaging Technician IATSE669 > >> Vancouver, British Columbia > >> 604-240-3323 (C) > >> lorne.miess at gmail.com > >> _______________________________________________ > >> http://colorist.org > >> To change subscription options, see > >> http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > http://colorist.org > > To change subscription options, see > http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig > > From trovak at comcast.net Wed Feb 3 14:43:19 2016 From: trovak at comcast.net (trovak) Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2016 08:43:19 -0600 Subject: [Tig] Blackmagic Design Scanner Message-ID: If you really want quality film scanning, then DFT's Scannity HDR is the choice for me.? Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S? III mini, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: Joav Shdema via Tig
Date:02/03/2016 8:28 AM (GMT-06:00)
To: Roger Koller
Cc: "tig at colorist.org Group"
Subject: Re: [Tig] Blackmagic Design Scanner
Sohonet www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. ===== Under impressed is a soften expression to disappointed. To me the Blackmagic scanner looked like the company is trying to sell more of their digital cameras than focusing on the true professional needs of someone involved in film restoration. What I've encountered was: Fixed mediocre optics Optical resolution isn't matched on both gauges No sound options Image quality is not good, faded and diffused Cheap looking mechanical film path with sprockets - a no go when you deal with archival materials No upgrade path options - it is a one box buy as is. I might forget some of the points but the above sums up my initial impression of this unit. Compared to the efforts invested by some of the other manufacturers - it is nowhere there. Cheers *Joav ShdemaManaging PartnerDB DigitalExpert Film-Video-Audio Restorationwww.dbdigital.co.il * On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 5:33 PM, Roger Koller wrote: > Hi Joav > > we are currently looking at the machine and have mixed feelings about its > quality. Especially how good the UHD quality/sharpness really is.. > what are your main concerns about it ? > > best > Roger > > Head of Postproduction > On Line Video 46 AG > > On 02.02.2016, at 15:31, Joav Shdema via Tig wrote: > > > Sohonet www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. > > ===== > > > > > > I had a lengthy check of this scanner and was under impressed with what I > > saw. > > It will be interesting to learn what others do think / use it for > > > > > > *Joav ShdemaManaging PartnerDB DigitalExpert Film-Video-Audio > > Restorationwww.dbdigital.co.il * > > > > On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 6:44 AM, Lorne Miess via Tig > > wrote: > > > >> Sohonet www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. > >> ===== > >> > >> > >> Hi, > >> > >> I'm looking to get some information on the scanner itself as far as > optical > >> audio, magnetic sound and PTR rollers and was looking for some other > users > >> if you can help me out please let me know? > >> > >> -- > >> > >> > >> thanks > >> > >> Lorne > >> > >> Lorne Miess > >> Colourist / Digital Imaging Technician IATSE669 > >> Vancouver, British Columbia > >> 604-240-3323 (C) > >> lorne.miess at gmail.com > >> _______________________________________________ > >> http://colorist.org > >> To change subscription options, see > >> http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > http://colorist.org > > To change subscription options, see > http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig > > _______________________________________________ http://colorist.org To change subscription options, see http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig From patrick at bluegiraffe.tv Wed Feb 3 14:58:44 2016 From: patrick at bluegiraffe.tv (- -) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2016 14:58:44 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Tig] Digital Vision - Golden Eye 4 Archive scanner Message-ID: <1770390372.58646.1489817f-4594-4bc4-bb2c-db48f1aaa191.open-xchange@email.1and1.co.uk> In the spirit of sharing.... Digital Vision's Golden Eye 4 Archive scanner: - scans ANY format from Reg 8 to 70mm (including Imax and Pathe) at ANY resolution up to 4k (3 x 4096 RGB, non Bayer) including native 3840 UHD. - all film formats are full resolution acquisition . - with our Universal Optics system the are no camera or lens changes, just a skid plate. - it is entirely sprocket-less (optical perf pick-up) , - has optical and magnetic sound (8, 16 , 35, 70mm) even has a sep mag head option for those people that have thrown away their Sep Mag machines, - has keycode - has several auto exposure/colour options - has the usual primary grading options - has multiple file output options and can be supported with high level restoration tools such as Phoenix and Loki. - worldwide sales and support. [1]www.digitalvision.tv Regards Patrick Morgan References 1. http://www.digitalvision.tv/ From telecine at hotmail.com Wed Feb 3 15:05:37 2016 From: telecine at hotmail.com (peter lynch) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2016 15:05:37 +0000 Subject: [Tig] Digital Vision - Golden Eye 4 Archive scanner In-Reply-To: <1770390372.58646.1489817f-4594-4bc4-bb2c-db48f1aaa191.open-xchange@email.1and1.co.uk> References: <1770390372.58646.1489817f-4594-4bc4-bb2c-db48f1aaa191.open-xchange@email.1and1.co.uk> Message-ID: Hi all I have to endorse the DV Golden Eye scanner . Graded a few nice things sourced from it ... ( I have no connection whatsoever with DV) Sent from my iPhone Sent from my iPhone > On 3 Feb 2016, at 15:00, - - via Tig wrote: > > Sohonet www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. > ===== > > > > In the spirit of sharing.... > > Digital Vision's Golden Eye 4 Archive scanner: > > - scans ANY format from Reg 8 to 70mm (including Imax and Pathe) at ANY > resolution up to 4k (3 x 4096 RGB, non Bayer) including native 3840 UHD. > - all film formats are full resolution acquisition . > - with our Universal Optics system the are no camera or lens changes, just a > skid plate. > - it is entirely sprocket-less (optical perf pick-up) , > - has optical and magnetic sound (8, 16 , 35, 70mm) even has a sep mag head > option for those people that have thrown away their Sep Mag machines, > - has keycode > - has several auto exposure/colour options > - has the usual primary grading options > - has multiple file output options and can be supported with high level > restoration tools such as Phoenix and Loki. > - worldwide sales and support. > > [1]www.digitalvision.tv > > Regards > > Patrick Morgan > > References > > 1. http://www.digitalvision.tv/ > _______________________________________________ > http://colorist.org > To change subscription options, see http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig From rob at colorist.org Thu Feb 4 01:48:24 2016 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2016 19:48:24 -0600 Subject: [Tig] Discussion of scanners In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: We?ve heard something about these scanners (but not enough about some): Blackmagic MWA Nova Choice Digital Vision GoldenEye 4 Kinetta Lasergraphics Xena from Digital Cinema Systems Is anyone here working with the NorthLight? ?and more information about the others is welcome to the group. A summary, if warranted, may be put up on the TIG website. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach roblingelbach at icloud.com http://lingelbach.us From perry at gammaraydigital.com Thu Feb 4 02:18:37 2016 From: perry at gammaraydigital.com (Perry Paolantonio) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2016 21:18:37 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Discussion of scanners In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2A6239BD-A83F-4498-AF73-64F192043772@gammaraydigital.com> > Is anyone here working with the NorthLight? We have a Northlight 1 (35mm, 6k) and a Lasergraphics ScanStation (8/16mm, 5k). The Northlight has a line sensor and the film is pin-registered. It uses a hot light source, separated from the film by a fibre optic light pipe, so it's cool at the film itself. The host PC is a custom redhat linux build made by Filmlight, and the software is pretty bare bones. The system can be completely run via command line, but I haven't really messed with that too much. Been thinking about it, becuase the GUI leaves a lot to be desired. It's a slow machine - about 5 seconds per frame at 4k, but the scan quality is great. Because it's a line sensor, it's susceptible to streaking if the light source and the pressure plate assembly aren't cleaned before each reel is loaded, but that's not such a big deal. No audio handling on this machine, but we're looking into the possibility of expanding the gate and using AEO-Light to post-process the captured track. The current gate/pressure plate arrangement cuts off the frame inside the frame line, so you get ticking noises when processed due to the missing few pixels. Should be a simple mod, just need to get it to a machine shop to do it right. If your office is cold in the winter, I recommend one of these as a secondary source of heat. Also, it weighs 1200lbs so it's its own theft deterrant. The marble top was something I always thought was there for show, but looking under the hood, I'm convinced that in part it's an effort to keep the heat from the bulb and processing hardware away from the scanner deck. The ScanStation is completely sprocketless, captstan/servo driven, and does digital pin registration using machine vision. It can handle extremely shrunken film without much fuss. The light source is an RGB LED, and the sensor (in the full ScanStation, not the ScanStation Personal) moves on a track depending on the gauge selected. So we can run ours at 30fps at resolutions up to 2k, and at 15fps at resolutions up to 5k. There is a speed upgrade that makes this 60 and 30fps, respectively. Audio is modular: There's an optical reader that uses a red/infrared light source and line sensor to scan the track as it passes. This is then post-processed (but very quickly) and synced with the film. Audio can be scanned at any speed, even very slowly. There are also mag audio options, with swappable modules for Super 8, 16 mag stripe or fullcoat, etc. We have the Super 8 module and the sound quality is great (considering the utter ridiculousness of Super 8 mag stripe). The mag head also works at variable speeds, and keeps perfect pitch and sync. The ScanStation has keykode reading and EDL capture features built-in, through the optical audio system. The software for it is great - basic grading tools, autofocus, ability to capture frame rates like 18 inside a 24fps file (by repeating frames), and the ability to output to multiple formats directly, simultaneously (like DPX and ProRes, at different resolutions, at the same time), EDLs, batch capture, burn-ins, etc. -perry --- Perry Paolantonio, Gamma Ray Digital, Inc. 5k Film Scanning - Blu-ray - DVD - Film Restoration t 617 379 0381 | www.gammaraydigital.com | Tw: @gammaraydigital | FB: www.facebook.com/gammaraydigital From tig at onlinevideo.ch Thu Feb 4 09:37:05 2016 From: tig at onlinevideo.ch (Roger Koller) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2016 10:37:05 +0100 Subject: [Tig] Blackmagic Design Scanner In-Reply-To: References: <0989664D-6356-4B28-B09F-22564F7EF86D@onlinevideo.ch> Message-ID: Hi Joav I understand; thanks for sharing ! best Roger On 03.02.2016, at 15:28, Joav Shdema wrote: > Under impressed is a soften expression to disappointed. > > To me the Blackmagic scanner looked like the company is trying to sell more of their digital cameras than focusing on the true professional needs of someone involved in film restoration. > > What I've encountered was: > Fixed mediocre optics > Optical resolution isn't matched on both gauges > No sound options > Image quality is not good, faded and diffused > Cheap looking mechanical film path with sprockets - a no go when you deal with archival materials > No upgrade path options - it is a one box buy as is. > > I might forget some of the points but the above sums up my initial impression of this unit. Compared to the efforts invested by some of the other manufacturers - it is nowhere there. > > Cheers > > > Joav Shdema > Managing Partner > DB Digital > Expert Film-Video-Audio Restoration > www.dbdigital.co.il > > On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 5:33 PM, Roger Koller wrote: > Hi Joav > > we are currently looking at the machine and have mixed feelings about its quality. Especially how good the UHD quality/sharpness really is.. > what are your main concerns about it ? > > best > Roger > > Head of Postproduction > On Line Video 46 AG > > On 02.02.2016, at 15:31, Joav Shdema via Tig wrote: > > > Sohonet www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. > > ===== > > > > > > I had a lengthy check of this scanner and was under impressed with what I > > saw. > > It will be interesting to learn what others do think / use it for > > > > > > *Joav ShdemaManaging PartnerDB DigitalExpert Film-Video-Audio > > Restorationwww.dbdigital.co.il * > > > > On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 6:44 AM, Lorne Miess via Tig > > wrote: > > > >> Sohonet www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. > >> ===== > >> > >> > >> Hi, > >> > >> I'm looking to get some information on the scanner itself as far as optical > >> audio, magnetic sound and PTR rollers and was looking for some other users > >> if you can help me out please let me know? > >> > >> -- > >> > >> > >> thanks > >> > >> Lorne > >> > >> Lorne Miess > >> Colourist / Digital Imaging Technician IATSE669 > >> Vancouver, British Columbia > >> 604-240-3323 (C) > >> lorne.miess at gmail.com > >> _______________________________________________ > >> http://colorist.org > >> To change subscription options, see > >> http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > http://colorist.org > > To change subscription options, see http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig > > From buck at movettefilm.com Thu Feb 4 20:23:47 2016 From: buck at movettefilm.com (Buck Bito - Movette) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2016 12:23:47 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Discussion of scanners In-Reply-To: <2A6239BD-A83F-4498-AF73-64F192043772@gammaraydigital.com> References: <2A6239BD-A83F-4498-AF73-64F192043772@gammaraydigital.com> Message-ID: <432cea3daa51d132e8f0eb67401ebab8.squirrel@mail.monkeybrains.net> Hi Perry, We also have a Scanstation 5K and a S8/R8 MWA-Nova FlashscanHD and a Kinetta. One thing we feel that we've discovered about the Scanstation (the manual is extremely 'thin') is that unlike our other two scanners, the grading controls do not alter the lamp pulse at all (thus its ability to output multiple grades simultaneously). Is this your experience as well, or have you found a way to alter the color balance and/or overall exposure from the lamp house? -Sincerely, --Buck Bito Lawrence "Buck" Bito Movette Film Transfer 1407 Valencia St. San Francisco, CA 94110 (Valencia at 25th St.) 415-558-8815 Open Tuesday - Saturday Tue+Thu: 8-6, Wed+Fri: 9-6, Sat: 10-4 www.movettefilm.com On Wed, February 3, 2016 6:18 pm, Perry Paolantonio via Tig wrote: > Sohonet www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. > ===== > > The software for it is great - basic grading tools <...> > > -perry > > > --- > Perry Paolantonio, Gamma Ray Digital, Inc. > 5k Film Scanning - Blu-ray - DVD - Film Restoration > t 617 379 0381 | www.gammaraydigital.com | Tw: @gammaraydigital | FB: > www.facebook.com/gammaraydigital > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://colorist.org > To change subscription options, see > http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig > > From perry at gammaraydigital.com Thu Feb 4 21:01:43 2016 From: perry at gammaraydigital.com (Perry Paolantonio) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2016 16:01:43 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Discussion of scanners In-Reply-To: <432cea3daa51d132e8f0eb67401ebab8.squirrel@mail.monkeybrains.net> References: <2A6239BD-A83F-4498-AF73-64F192043772@gammaraydigital.com> <432cea3daa51d132e8f0eb67401ebab8.squirrel@mail.monkeybrains.net> Message-ID: <22A30F0D-0BFE-4353-B83A-9FCA0A8C0F83@gammaraydigital.com> Hi Buck, You can alter the lamp color by doing a custom calibration, and tweaking the individual R,G,B values relative to one another. That being said, we don't do any grading in the scanner at all, we do that all in Resolve. So unless the film is really heavily skewed to one color, we just scan it as flat as possible with the default lamp settings, and deal with the color in Resolve. That being said, I don't think any of these scanners, while they offer basic grading tools, should really be used to do graded scans, since they're only connected to computer monitors, not calibrated grading displays. > (thus its ability to output > multiple grades simultaneously) Using the built in grading tools, this is entirely possible. You can assign grades to be either global, per output or per clip. If you want to do a flat scan to DPX and a simultaneous graded scan to ProRes, for example, set the grading to "Per Output." Select the DPX output and in the grading tools, click on Reset All, which zeroes out all the settings, effectively the same as turning grading off. Now select the ProRes file and grade it as you'd like. If you flip between the two outputs, you should see the grade change. If you're looking to do a different grade per clip, you set the grade to "Per Clip" and then set your grades accordingly. Note that the current frame has to be within the bounds of the clip to see any changes you've made. If your clip ends at frame 1000, and you're at 1001, you won't see any changes to the grade. The manual is pretty thin, but I think the software is really intuitive. Also, Lasergraphics tech support is great and they're always quick with an answer (and a software fix, if you run into an issue). -perry On Feb 4, 2016, at 3:23 PM, Buck Bito - Movette wrote: > Hi Perry, > We also have a Scanstation 5K and a S8/R8 MWA-Nova FlashscanHD and a Kinetta. > One thing we feel that we've discovered about the Scanstation (the manual > is extremely 'thin') is that unlike our other two scanners, the grading > controls do not alter the lamp pulse at all (thus its ability to output > multiple grades simultaneously). Is this your experience as well, or have > you found a way to alter the color balance and/or overall exposure from > the lamp house? > -Sincerely, > --Buck Bito > > Lawrence "Buck" Bito > Movette Film Transfer > 1407 Valencia St. > San Francisco, CA 94110 > (Valencia at 25th St.) > 415-558-8815 > Open Tuesday - Saturday > Tue+Thu: 8-6, Wed+Fri: 9-6, Sat: 10-4 > www.movettefilm.com > > On Wed, February 3, 2016 6:18 pm, Perry Paolantonio via Tig wrote: >> Sohonet www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. >> ===== >> >> The software for it is great - basic grading tools <...> >> >> -perry >> >> >> --- >> Perry Paolantonio, Gamma Ray Digital, Inc. >> 5k Film Scanning - Blu-ray - DVD - Film Restoration >> t 617 379 0381 | www.gammaraydigital.com | Tw: @gammaraydigital | FB: >> www.facebook.com/gammaraydigital >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://colorist.org >> To change subscription options, see >> http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig >> >> > --- Perry Paolantonio, Gamma Ray Digital, Inc. 6k Film Scanning - Blu-ray - DVD - Film Restoration t 617 379 0381 | www.gammaraydigital.com | Tw: @gammaraydigital | FB: www.facebook.com/gammaraydigital From buck at movettefilm.com Thu Feb 4 21:43:43 2016 From: buck at movettefilm.com (Buck Bito - Movette) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2016 13:43:43 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Discussion of scanners In-Reply-To: <22A30F0D-0BFE-4353-B83A-9FCA0A8C0F83@gammaraydigital.com> References: <2A6239BD-A83F-4498-AF73-64F192043772@gammaraydigital.com> <432cea3daa51d132e8f0eb67401ebab8.squirrel@mail.monkeybrains.net> <22A30F0D-0BFE-4353-B83A-9FCA0A8C0F83@gammaraydigital.com> Message-ID: <0de7617128ae38bd674783c9bf22ed26.squirrel@mail.monkeybrains.net> Hi Perry, Thanks for the quick reply. I think we're largely on the same page regarding scanner-based grading except that with our other two scanners we are able to deal with real problem footage (most of what we work with is amateur material) by altering the lamp settings to get closer to a rough grade and thus retaining full sensor range going to disk. Like you, we do not do final grading on scanners. But for instance, since the primary grading UI for the FlashscanHD is acting on the lamp and is very easy to alter for a pickup take, we deal with serious color issues like tungsten film outdoors on the scanner to get it 'in range' and that way our clients have more bits to push around in post for the real grading. The level of control we have on the Kinetta far surpasses both of our other scanners and has allowed us to pull usable files out of underexposed super-8 that was essentially black coming out of either our Scanstation or our FlashscanHD no matter what we tried on those machines. -Sincerely, ---Buck On Thu, February 4, 2016 1:01 pm, Perry Paolantonio wrote: > Hi Buck, > > You can alter the lamp color by doing a custom calibration, and tweaking > the individual R,G,B values relative to one another. That being said, we > don't do any grading in the scanner at all, we do that all in Resolve. So > unless the film is really heavily skewed to one color, we just scan it as > flat as possible with the default lamp settings, and deal with the color > in Resolve. > > That being said, I don't think any of these scanners, while they offer > basic grading tools, should really be used to do graded scans, since > they're only connected to computer monitors, not calibrated grading > displays. > <...> > -perry > > > > On Feb 4, 2016, at 3:23 PM, Buck Bito - Movette > wrote: > >> Hi Perry, >> We also have a Scanstation 5K and a S8/R8 MWA-Nova FlashscanHD and a >> Kinetta. >> One thing we feel that we've discovered about the Scanstation (the >> manual >> is extremely 'thin') is that unlike our other two scanners, the grading >> controls do not alter the lamp pulse at all (thus its ability to output >> multiple grades simultaneously). Is this your experience as well, or >> have >> you found a way to alter the color balance and/or overall exposure from >> the lamp house? >> -Sincerely, >> --Buck Bito >> >> Lawrence "Buck" Bito >> Movette Film Transfer >> 1407 Valencia St. >> San Francisco, CA 94110 >> (Valencia at 25th St.) >> 415-558-8815 >> Open Tuesday - Saturday >> Tue+Thu: 8-6, Wed+Fri: 9-6, Sat: 10-4 >> www.movettefilm.com >> >> On Wed, February 3, 2016 6:18 pm, Perry Paolantonio via Tig wrote: >>> Sohonet www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. >>> ===== >>> >>> The software for it is great - basic grading tools <...> >>> >>> -perry >>> >>> >>> --- >>> Perry Paolantonio, Gamma Ray Digital, Inc. >>> 5k Film Scanning - Blu-ray - DVD - Film Restoration >>> t 617 379 0381 | www.gammaraydigital.com | Tw: @gammaraydigital | FB: >>> www.facebook.com/gammaraydigital >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> http://colorist.org >>> To change subscription options, see >>> http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig >>> >>> >> > > --- > Perry Paolantonio, Gamma Ray Digital, Inc. > 6k Film Scanning - Blu-ray - DVD - Film Restoration > t 617 379 0381 | www.gammaraydigital.com | Tw: @gammaraydigital | FB: > www.facebook.com/gammaraydigital > > From rob at cinelab.com Thu Feb 4 21:55:12 2016 From: rob at cinelab.com (Robert Houllahan) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2016 16:55:12 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Discussion of scanners In-Reply-To: <0de7617128ae38bd674783c9bf22ed26.squirrel@mail.monkeybrains.net> References: <2A6239BD-A83F-4498-AF73-64F192043772@gammaraydigital.com> <432cea3daa51d132e8f0eb67401ebab8.squirrel@mail.monkeybrains.net> <22A30F0D-0BFE-4353-B83A-9FCA0A8C0F83@gammaraydigital.com> <0de7617128ae38bd674783c9bf22ed26.squirrel@mail.monkeybrains.net> Message-ID: <1DB3BC3B-5F24-4B29-B436-FBE50BEAE867@cinelab.com> The DCS Xena machines give the operator control of LED (RGB+IR) Current and Duration and they are planning a scene to scene correction ability for a future software release. I have found that being able to adjust lamp balance and color is very useful in dealing with poorly shot film and faded prints. On the 5K True RGB Xena I can do multi flash HDR and IR. with our other two scanners we are able to deal with real > problem footage (most of what we work with is amateur material) by > altering the lamp settings Robert Houllahan Scans Colorist Workflow Co-Owner 35MM 16MM 8MM B&W/Color-Lab Scan HD 2K-5K 8MM 16MM 35MM Arrilaser 2K & 4K Film Recording www.cinelab.com https://www.facebook.com/CinelabBoston From tedlangdell at gmail.com Fri Feb 5 17:38:35 2016 From: tedlangdell at gmail.com (Ted Langdell) Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2016 09:38:35 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Discussion of scanners In-Reply-To: <0de7617128ae38bd674783c9bf22ed26.squirrel@mail.monkeybrains.net> References: <2A6239BD-A83F-4498-AF73-64F192043772@gammaraydigital.com> <432cea3daa51d132e8f0eb67401ebab8.squirrel@mail.monkeybrains.net> <22A30F0D-0BFE-4353-B83A-9FCA0A8C0F83@gammaraydigital.com> <0de7617128ae38bd674783c9bf22ed26.squirrel@mail.monkeybrains.net> Message-ID: Being able to get the film to look as good as possible at the time of scanning is also a consideration for projects that may never be ?improved? after the initial digitization. I would suggest that?s important for commercial and institutional users that have limited staff or resources, a small budget and/or need to minimize the steps involved in the process from intake to delivery of files. That can include archives whose policy when licensing clips is to prohibit licensees from altering the clip (color correction, dust and scratch removal, etc.) Sometimes a simple improvement in contrast makes a major difference in the view ability and ?communication quality? of a clip. And in the saleablilty of clips, particularly when the same content may be available from multiple sources. Which would your eyes be drawn to? The MWA line of scanners (flashscanHD, Choice and Vario) enable varying the overall LED array intensity to get more light through the film, and adjusting the R-G-B balance to compensate for the issues Buck described. I?ve been able to make some seriously pink, orange, low contrast or dark film to make it more watchable in the absence of any further steps. Those color and level settings, framing, audio levels, EQ and other parameters can be triggered at specific frames using MWA's software timeline feature and marking in-points referenced to a user-chosen zero point. Where more bits and higher dynamic range are important, the MWA Vario can be equipped with a 16-bit per color, 2.5K High Dynamic Range (HDR), low noise sensor that?s 2560 x 2160 and real-time. 16 bit DPX log or linear files can be created for preservation or further work. Also ProRes 4444. And the Vario?s Series 5 transport is set up to do 8mm/Super8, 9.5, 16, 17.5, 28 and 35mm. Just add desired gates and sound options. The Avid Artist series ?Color? panel with colorist and new user-friendly three-ring & trackball circus, knobs and buttons makes for easy adjustments of picture, sound, framing and other parameters on MWA equipment. As a vendor, I?m happy to see this discussion. It highlights the various tools available for users to work with and achieve results. Neither MWA or myself think we have a one-size fits all tool-set, but the company is interested in finding out what end-users need and want, and how those needs/wants can be incorporated into the standard and optional tools available on MWA scanners. Thanks, Rob, for opening up the communication and to TIG members for chiming in. I hope to see more. Ted Ted Langdell flashscan8.us Moving Image Tool and Technology Store iPhone: (530) 301-2931 (Preferred) Office: (530) 741-1212 ted at flashscan8.us Skype: TedLangdell See us at NAB 2016, April 18-21, Lower South Hall Booth SL14813. Free exhibit pass code LV3654 can now be used for registration. On Feb 4, 2016, at 1:43 PM, Buck Bito - Movette via Tig wrote: > But for instance, since the primary grading UI for the FlashscanHD is acting on the lamp and is > very easy to alter for a pickup take, we deal with serious color issues like tungsten film outdoors on the scanner to get it 'in range' and that way our clients have more bits to push around in post for the real > grading. From jeffkreines at mindspring.com Fri Feb 5 18:35:19 2016 From: jeffkreines at mindspring.com (Jeff Kreines - Mindspring) Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2016 12:35:19 -0600 Subject: [Tig] Discussion of scanners In-Reply-To: References: <2A6239BD-A83F-4498-AF73-64F192043772@gammaraydigital.com> <432cea3daa51d132e8f0eb67401ebab8.squirrel@mail.monkeybrains.net> <22A30F0D-0BFE-4353-B83A-9FCA0A8C0F83@gammaraydigital.com> <0de7617128ae38bd674783c9bf22ed26.squirrel@mail.monkeybrains.net> Message-ID: <602DDD78-29DE-4A5F-BDBB-E86DDA8EF666@mindspring.com> > On Feb 5, 2016, at 11:38 AM, Ted Langdell via Tig wrote: > > > On Feb 4, 2016, at 1:43 PM, Buck Bito - Movette via Tig > wrote: > >> But for instance, since the primary grading UI for the FlashscanHD is acting on the lamp and is >> very easy to alter for a pickup take, we deal with serious color issues like tungsten film outdoors on the scanner to get it 'in range' and that way our clients have more bits to push around in post for the real >> grading. > Ted, when you quoted the above from Buck, you left out a significant part of his post ? this: > The level of control we have on the Kinetta far surpasses both of our > other scanners and has allowed us to pull usable files out of underexposed > super-8 that was essentially black coming out of either our Scanstation or > our FlashscanHD no matter what we tried on those machines. Selective quoting doesn?t really help advance the conversation. Thanks to a certain anonymous TIG member for pointing this out. Best, Jeff Kreines Kinetta From grace at scanbox.tv Fri Feb 5 18:57:11 2016 From: grace at scanbox.tv (Grace McKay) Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2016 10:57:11 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Discussion of scanners In-Reply-To: <602DDD78-29DE-4A5F-BDBB-E86DDA8EF666@mindspring.com> References: <2A6239BD-A83F-4498-AF73-64F192043772@gammaraydigital.com> <432cea3daa51d132e8f0eb67401ebab8.squirrel@mail.monkeybrains.net> <22A30F0D-0BFE-4353-B83A-9FCA0A8C0F83@gammaraydigital.com> <0de7617128ae38bd674783c9bf22ed26.squirrel@mail.monkeybrains.net> <602DDD78-29DE-4A5F-BDBB-E86DDA8EF666@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <56B4F087.6060704@scanbox.tv> The cameras these various scanners use have a lot to do with overall image quality, but of course not everything. But most I think use commercially available cameras. Could those who know the details let the rest of us know what cameras are in each of these scanners? Grace McKay Electric Pictures Spirit High Definition Motion Picture Telecine Scanning *ElectricPictures.tv* *949-838-0001* From tedlangdell at gmail.com Fri Feb 5 18:57:40 2016 From: tedlangdell at gmail.com (Ted Langdell) Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2016 10:57:40 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Discussion of scanners In-Reply-To: <602DDD78-29DE-4A5F-BDBB-E86DDA8EF666@mindspring.com> References: <2A6239BD-A83F-4498-AF73-64F192043772@gammaraydigital.com> <432cea3daa51d132e8f0eb67401ebab8.squirrel@mail.monkeybrains.net> <22A30F0D-0BFE-4353-B83A-9FCA0A8C0F83@gammaraydigital.com> <0de7617128ae38bd674783c9bf22ed26.squirrel@mail.monkeybrains.net> <602DDD78-29DE-4A5F-BDBB-E86DDA8EF666@mindspring.com> Message-ID: Hi, Jeff, In respecting the TIG?s rules to not quote more than necessary? the point you reiterate had already been made by Buck. My post reflected what MWA scanners are capable of, and was limited to that. As a general rule, I let other scanner manufacturers speak for themselves about their products. As I said, there?s not a one-size fits all tool? and I?m glad that there are options for scanner users to obtain results from customers film, particularly difficult content. Cordially, Ted Ted Langdell flashscan8.us Moving Image Tool and Technology Store iPhone: (530) 301-2931 (Preferred) Office: (530) 741-1212 ted at flashscan8.us Skype: TedLangdell See us at NAB 2016, April 18-21, Lower South Hall Booth SL14813. Free exhibit pass code LV3654 can now be used for registration. On Feb 5, 2016, at 10:35 AM, Jeff Kreines - Mindspring via Tig wrote: > Sohonet www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. > ===== > > > >> On Feb 5, 2016, at 11:38 AM, Ted Langdell via Tig wrote: >> >> >> On Feb 4, 2016, at 1:43 PM, Buck Bito - Movette via Tig > wrote: >> >>> But for instance, since the primary grading UI for the FlashscanHD is acting on the lamp and is >>> very easy to alter for a pickup take, we deal with serious color issues like tungsten film outdoors on the scanner to get it 'in range' and that way our clients have more bits to push around in post for the real >>> grading. >> > > Ted, when you quoted the above from Buck, you left out a significant part of his post ? this: > >> The level of control we have on the Kinetta far surpasses both of our >> other scanners and has allowed us to pull usable files out of underexposed >> super-8 that was essentially black coming out of either our Scanstation or >> our FlashscanHD no matter what we tried on those machines. > > Selective quoting doesn?t really help advance the conversation. > > Thanks to a certain anonymous TIG member for pointing this out. > > Best, > > Jeff Kreines > Kinetta > _______________________________________________ > http://colorist.org > To change subscription options, see http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig From andreas at filmtek.no Sun Feb 7 12:42:34 2016 From: andreas at filmtek.no (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Andreas_Wider=F8e?=) Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2016 13:42:34 +0100 Subject: [Tig] Discussion of scanners In-Reply-To: <56B4F087.6060704@scanbox.tv> References: <2A6239BD-A83F-4498-AF73-64F192043772@gammaraydigital.com> <432cea3daa51d132e8f0eb67401ebab8.squirrel@mail.monkeybrains.net> <22A30F0D-0BFE-4353-B83A-9FCA0A8C0F83@gammaraydigital.com> <0de7617128ae38bd674783c9bf22ed26.squirrel@mail.monkeybrains.net> <602DDD78-29DE-4A5F-BDBB-E86DDA8EF666@mindspring.com> <56B4F087.6060704@scanbox.tv> Message-ID: In the latest version of the FilmFabriek Muller HDS scanner there is a ptgrey camera. Here's some more info: http://www.filmfabriek.nl/usb3.0-cameras.html /Andreas --- Filmtek AS http://www.filmtek.no Filmshooting | Com - http://www.filmshooting.com Tel: (+47) 38 17 99 16 On Feb 5, 2016, at 7:57 PM, Grace McKay via Tig wrote: > Sohonet www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. > ===== > > > The cameras these various scanners use have a lot to do with overall image quality, but of course not everything. But most I think use commercially available cameras. Could those who know the details let the rest of us know what cameras are in each of these scanners? > > Grace McKay > Electric Pictures > Spirit High Definition Motion Picture Telecine Scanning > *ElectricPictures.tv* > *949-838-0001* > > > _______________________________________________ > http://colorist.org > To change subscription options, see http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig From cmlstepan at gmail.com Mon Feb 8 15:09:34 2016 From: cmlstepan at gmail.com (CML Ko) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2016 15:09:34 +0000 Subject: [Tig] Film color response in 3x3 matrix Message-ID: Hello Tig'ers I'm a long time reader but a first time poster on this list, so go easy on me! So here is my potentially silly question: is there a way of profiling a specific film stock and deriving a 3x3 matrix that would represent the filmstocks color rendition? Kind of like an emulation lut but in a form of a 3x3 matrix that has to be applied to linearized footage? The second question is how would I go about doing that on a budget? I mostly do shortform color work and I very much doubt my company would be interested in paying for any research and development and big boy solutions, so any costs would be paid for by me. Hope this makes sence! All the best Stepan From avgeeks at gmail.com Mon Feb 8 15:35:54 2016 From: avgeeks at gmail.com (Skip Elsheimer) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2016 10:35:54 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Discussion of scanners In-Reply-To: References: <2A6239BD-A83F-4498-AF73-64F192043772@gammaraydigital.com> <432cea3daa51d132e8f0eb67401ebab8.squirrel@mail.monkeybrains.net> <22A30F0D-0BFE-4353-B83A-9FCA0A8C0F83@gammaraydigital.com> <0de7617128ae38bd674783c9bf22ed26.squirrel@mail.monkeybrains.net> <602DDD78-29DE-4A5F-BDBB-E86DDA8EF666@mindspring.com> <56B4F087.6060704@scanbox.tv> Message-ID: One anecdotal story about the Blackmagic scanner.. I was consulting with an archive that has a lot of 35mm beatup features. They were attracted to the price of the Blackmagic scanner. So I had them bring a core of 35mm trailers in different conditions - b&w, color, shrunken, torn sprockets - to AMIA where the scanner was being shown. The idea was that we would have different vendors scan the trailers and then they could compare the results back at the archive. The guys at the Blackmagic booth, while very knowledgeable about other Blackmagic products, admitted they didn't know a lot about the scanner and were reluctant to run the trailers. "It's not really an archival scanner and it might not handle the shrunken materials well" they said. We told them that we understood but would still like to try it. Surprisingly, the scanner handled everything pretty well. There was some frame unsteadiness during some warped film (remedied by putting your finger near the gate to flatten the film). The unsteadiness could have been stabilized in post without much of a problem. Tramline scratches were a little more pronounced on the scanner than other solutions we looked at - so Blackmagic scanner's light source diffusion isn't as good as some other solutions. The Blackmagic guys gave us the Cintel RAW files from the scan (to their credit the client's drive wasn't being recognized by their Mac, so they worked hard to bounce the files from their drive to another computer to the client's drive). I followed up with the archive to see if they had a chance to compare the files from the Blackmagic with the other scanners they've tried. "We can't open them". They've tried to open them in Resolve and it just doesn't work. I don't know which version of Resolve they were using but the proprietary RAW files are a hurdle in my mind - you have to render them to something else to use them in any other program. They went with Lasergraphics Scanstantion Personal. I own a Kinetta and a Flashtransfer16. They both have their strengths and weaknesses. If my archive were mostly 35mm, I would consider a Blackmagic scanner because of the price and the minimal footprint, but they really blew it with their 16mm resolution specs. On Sun, Feb 7, 2016 at 7:42 AM, Andreas Wider?e wrote: > Sohonet www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. > ===== > > > In the latest version of the FilmFabriek Muller HDS scanner there is a ptgrey camera. Here's some more info: > > http://www.filmfabriek.nl/usb3.0-cameras.html > > /Andreas > > > --- > Filmtek AS > http://www.filmtek.no > > Filmshooting | Com - http://www.filmshooting.com > > Tel: (+47) 38 17 99 16 > > On Feb 5, 2016, at 7:57 PM, Grace McKay via Tig wrote: > >> Sohonet www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. >> ===== >> >> >> The cameras these various scanners use have a lot to do with overall image quality, but of course not everything. But most I think use commercially available cameras. Could those who know the details let the rest of us know what cameras are in each of these scanners? >> >> Grace McKay >> Electric Pictures >> Spirit High Definition Motion Picture Telecine Scanning >> *ElectricPictures.tv* >> *949-838-0001* >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://colorist.org >> To change subscription options, see http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig > > _______________________________________________ > http://colorist.org > To change subscription options, see http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig From grace at scanbox.tv Fri Feb 12 17:27:20 2016 From: grace at scanbox.tv (Grace McKay) Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2016 09:27:20 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Discussion of scanners In-Reply-To: References: <2A6239BD-A83F-4498-AF73-64F192043772@gammaraydigital.com> <432cea3daa51d132e8f0eb67401ebab8.squirrel@mail.monkeybrains.net> <22A30F0D-0BFE-4353-B83A-9FCA0A8C0F83@gammaraydigital.com> <0de7617128ae38bd674783c9bf22ed26.squirrel@mail.monkeybrains.net> <602DDD78-29DE-4A5F-BDBB-E86DDA8EF666@mindspring.com> <56B4F087.6060704@scanbox.tv> Message-ID: <56BE15F8.3070209@scanbox.tv> Thanks Andreas. I didn't mean to kill the conversation about scanners with my question. I will surmise that the choice of cameras is in the "Secret Sauce" category of information, and not to be shared. I would guess that most are in the 4k-5k range of industrial/scientific camera, with larger formats being better, as the pixel size can be larger. In any case these various scanners are all high-quality, with similar feature sets. Grace McKay Electric Pictures Spirit High Definition Motion Picture Telecine Scanning *ElectricPictures.tv* *949-838-0001* On 2/7/2016 4:42 AM, Andreas Wider?e via Tig wrote: > Sohonet www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. > ===== > > > In the latest version of the FilmFabriek Muller HDS scanner there is a ptgrey camera. Here's some more info: > > http://www.filmfabriek.nl/usb3.0-cameras.html > > /Andreas > > > --- > Filmtek AS > http://www.filmtek.no > > Filmshooting | Com - http://www.filmshooting.com > > Tel: (+47) 38 17 99 16 > > On Feb 5, 2016, at 7:57 PM, Grace McKay via Tig wrote: > >> Sohonet www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. >> ===== >> >> >> The cameras these various scanners use have a lot to do with overall image quality, but of course not everything. But most I think use commercially available cameras. Could those who know the details let the rest of us know what cameras are in each of these scanners? >> >> Grace McKay >> Electric Pictures >> Spirit High Definition Motion Picture Telecine Scanning >> *ElectricPictures.tv* >> *949-838-0001* >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://colorist.org >> To change subscription options, see http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig > _______________________________________________ > http://colorist.org > To change subscription options, see http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig From jeffkreines at mindspring.com Fri Feb 12 19:20:38 2016 From: jeffkreines at mindspring.com (Jeff Kreines - Mindspring) Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2016 13:20:38 -0600 Subject: [Tig] Discussion of scanners In-Reply-To: <56BE15F8.3070209@scanbox.tv> References: <2A6239BD-A83F-4498-AF73-64F192043772@gammaraydigital.com> <432cea3daa51d132e8f0eb67401ebab8.squirrel@mail.monkeybrains.net> <22A30F0D-0BFE-4353-B83A-9FCA0A8C0F83@gammaraydigital.com> <0de7617128ae38bd674783c9bf22ed26.squirrel@mail.monkeybrains.net> <602DDD78-29DE-4A5F-BDBB-E86DDA8EF666@mindspring.com> <56B4F087.6060704@scanbox.tv> <56BE15F8.3070209@scanbox.tv> Message-ID: <10FB25B8-136A-4A0B-A477-E53FBDA4799C@mindspring.com> > On Feb 12, 2016, at 11:27 AM, Grace McKay via Tig wrote: > > Thanks Andreas. I didn't mean to kill the conversation about scanners with my question. I will surmise that the choice of cameras is in the "Secret Sauce" category of information, and not to be shared. I would guess that most are in the 4k-5k range of industrial/scientific camera, with larger formats being better, as the pixel size can be larger. In any case these various scanners are all high-quality, with similar feature sets. We have been using factory-modified machine vision cameras, as others do, in combination with proprietary GPU-based signal processing. So far we have not found any CMOS sensors that have enough dynamic range to approach the quality we have been getting from high-end CCD sensors. Of course, with CCDs there?s a trade-off between scanning speed and resolution. Some manufacturers are using a 5K CMOS camera that can capture at up to 30 fps (with a huge RAID to keep up with it) but the sensor in this camera, while fast, can not approach CCD quality ? especially apparent when scanning contrasty material ? prints and reversal originals. We are working with a manufacturer on a new 6K camera with very good dynamic range that looks promising, but it?s probably a few months off. That?s why we make it possible for Kinetta users to swap out the sensor module in less than a minute ? as better sensors come along (and they will) we can accommodate them (the good ones, anyway). Unlike some other scanners, the user can adjust sensor and lens position to make the best use of the available resolution. Some archives prefer to scan everything edge-to-edge, preserving the optical track and any ephemera and edge markings. A good example of this is the USC Newsfilm Archive ? they have a collection of 1926-1934 Fox Movietone outtakes ? original camera negatives with variable density (AEO-Light) sound. They scan everything edge to edge. My (very biased) advice is to choose a sensor that is easily upgradable as far as sensors go, and not get stuck with the sensor technology that was current when the scanner was manufactured. It?s a quickly-changing field. I?d also suggest getting a scanner you can carry in a passenger car, but that may not matter to everyone! Jeff Kreines Kinetta jeff at kinetta.com kinetta.com From andreas at filmtek.no Fri Feb 12 21:03:56 2016 From: andreas at filmtek.no (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Andreas_Wider=F8e?=) Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2016 22:03:56 +0100 Subject: [Tig] Discussion of scanners In-Reply-To: <10FB25B8-136A-4A0B-A477-E53FBDA4799C@mindspring.com> References: <2A6239BD-A83F-4498-AF73-64F192043772@gammaraydigital.com> <432cea3daa51d132e8f0eb67401ebab8.squirrel@mail.monkeybrains.net> <22A30F0D-0BFE-4353-B83A-9FCA0A8C0F83@gammaraydigital.com> <0de7617128ae38bd674783c9bf22ed26.squirrel@mail.monkeybrains.net> <602DDD78-29DE-4A5F-BDBB-E86DDA8EF666@mindspring.com> <56B4F087.6060704@scanbox.tv> <56BE15F8.3070209@scanbox.tv> <10FB25B8-136A-4A0B-A477-E53FBDA4799C@mindspring.com> Message-ID: Ted, what cameras/sensors are in the MWA scanners? And does anyone know what's in the Scanstation? /Andreas --- Filmtek AS http://www.filmtek.no Filmshooting | Com - http://www.filmshooting.com Tel: (+47) 38 17 99 16 On Feb 12, 2016, at 8:20 PM, Jeff Kreines - Mindspring via Tig wrote: > Sohonet www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. > ===== > > > >> On Feb 12, 2016, at 11:27 AM, Grace McKay via Tig wrote: >> >> Thanks Andreas. I didn't mean to kill the conversation about scanners with my question. I will surmise that the choice of cameras is in the "Secret Sauce" category of information, and not to be shared. I would guess that most are in the 4k-5k range of industrial/scientific camera, with larger formats being better, as the pixel size can be larger. In any case these various scanners are all high-quality, with similar feature sets. > > We have been using factory-modified machine vision cameras, as others do, in combination with proprietary GPU-based signal processing. So far we have not found any CMOS sensors that have enough dynamic range to approach the quality we have been getting from high-end CCD sensors. Of course, with CCDs there?s a trade-off between scanning speed and resolution. > > Some manufacturers are using a 5K CMOS camera that can capture at up to 30 fps (with a huge RAID to keep up with it) but the sensor in this camera, while fast, can not approach CCD quality ? especially apparent when scanning contrasty material ? prints and reversal originals. > > We are working with a manufacturer on a new 6K camera with very good dynamic range that looks promising, but it?s probably a few months off. > > That?s why we make it possible for Kinetta users to swap out the sensor module in less than a minute ? as better sensors come along (and they will) we can accommodate them (the good ones, anyway). Unlike some other scanners, the user can adjust sensor and lens position to make the best use of the available resolution. Some archives prefer to scan everything edge-to-edge, preserving the optical track and any ephemera and edge markings. A good example of this is the USC Newsfilm Archive ? they have a collection of 1926-1934 Fox Movietone outtakes ? original camera negatives with variable density (AEO-Light) sound. They scan everything edge to edge. > > My (very biased) advice is to choose a sensor that is easily upgradable as far as sensors go, and not get stuck with the sensor technology that was current when the scanner was manufactured. It?s a quickly-changing field. > > I?d also suggest getting a scanner you can carry in a passenger car, but that may not matter to everyone! > > Jeff Kreines > Kinetta > jeff at kinetta.com > kinetta.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://colorist.org > To change subscription options, see http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig > From rob at cinelab.com Fri Feb 12 21:22:40 2016 From: rob at cinelab.com (Robert Houllahan) Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2016 16:22:40 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Discussion of scanners In-Reply-To: References: <2A6239BD-A83F-4498-AF73-64F192043772@gammaraydigital.com> <432cea3daa51d132e8f0eb67401ebab8.squirrel@mail.monkeybrains.net> <22A30F0D-0BFE-4353-B83A-9FCA0A8C0F83@gammaraydigital.com> <0de7617128ae38bd674783c9bf22ed26.squirrel@mail.monkeybrains.net> <602DDD78-29DE-4A5F-BDBB-E86DDA8EF666@mindspring.com> <56B4F087.6060704@scanbox.tv> <56BE15F8.3070209@scanbox.tv> <10FB25B8-136A-4A0B-A477-E53FBDA4799C@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <2E5E2B3F-1A0D-4ADC-9DEA-B2F6403D6DEE@cinelab.com> I can tell you about a few sensors/cameras used. There is the JAI Spark 5000 series, I believe used in the Scan Station and Kinetta. http://www.jai.com/en/products/sp-20000-pmcl We use a On-Semi Imperx 4080 in our fast Xena scanner: http://imperx.com/cmos-cameras/c4080/ And a ex-Kodak Imperx Monochrome CCD for our 5K Pin Registered Sequential RGB Xena: http://imperx.com/ccd-cameras/B4822/ Robert Houllahan Scans Colorist Workflow Co-Owner 35MM 16MM 8MM B&W/Color-Lab Scan HD 2K-5K 8MM 16MM 35MM Arrilaser 2K & 4K Film Recording www.cinelab.com https://www.facebook.com/CinelabBoston From rob at cinelab.com Fri Feb 12 21:22:40 2016 From: rob at cinelab.com (Robert Houllahan) Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2016 16:22:40 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Discussion of scanners In-Reply-To: References: <2A6239BD-A83F-4498-AF73-64F192043772@gammaraydigital.com> <432cea3daa51d132e8f0eb67401ebab8.squirrel@mail.monkeybrains.net> <22A30F0D-0BFE-4353-B83A-9FCA0A8C0F83@gammaraydigital.com> <0de7617128ae38bd674783c9bf22ed26.squirrel@mail.monkeybrains.net> <602DDD78-29DE-4A5F-BDBB-E86DDA8EF666@mindspring.com> <56B4F087.6060704@scanbox.tv> <56BE15F8.3070209@scanbox.tv> <10FB25B8-136A-4A0B-A477-E53FBDA4799C@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <2E5E2B3F-1A0D-4ADC-9DEA-B2F6403D6DEE@cinelab.com> I can tell you about a few sensors/cameras used. There is the JAI Spark 5000 series, I believe used in the Scan Station and Kinetta. http://www.jai.com/en/products/sp-20000-pmcl We use a On-Semi Imperx 4080 in our fast Xena scanner: http://imperx.com/cmos-cameras/c4080/ And a ex-Kodak Imperx Monochrome CCD for our 5K Pin Registered Sequential RGB Xena: http://imperx.com/ccd-cameras/B4822/ Robert Houllahan Scans Colorist Workflow Co-Owner 35MM 16MM 8MM B&W/Color-Lab Scan HD 2K-5K 8MM 16MM 35MM Arrilaser 2K & 4K Film Recording www.cinelab.com https://www.facebook.com/CinelabBoston From jeffkreines at mindspring.com Fri Feb 12 21:29:47 2016 From: jeffkreines at mindspring.com (Jeff Kreines - Mindspring) Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2016 15:29:47 -0600 Subject: [Tig] Discussion of scanners In-Reply-To: References: <2A6239BD-A83F-4498-AF73-64F192043772@gammaraydigital.com> <432cea3daa51d132e8f0eb67401ebab8.squirrel@mail.monkeybrains.net> <22A30F0D-0BFE-4353-B83A-9FCA0A8C0F83@gammaraydigital.com> <0de7617128ae38bd674783c9bf22ed26.squirrel@mail.monkeybrains.net> <602DDD78-29DE-4A5F-BDBB-E86DDA8EF666@mindspring.com> <56B4F087.6060704@scanbox.tv> <56BE15F8.3070209@scanbox.tv> <10FB25B8-136A-4A0B-A477-E53FBDA4799C@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <72DD4FEF-5048-493B-AA5E-C0311C75AB21@mindspring.com> > On Feb 12, 2016, at 3:03 PM, Andreas Wider?e via Tig wrote: > > And does anyone know what's in the Scanstation? Hi, Andreas: Interesting question. Their spec sheet claims ? Ultra low noise CCD imager with bayer pattern But their 5K machines use a camera, probably JAI, with a CMOSIS 20000 CMOS sensor ? one of the ones we rejected for less-than-stellar dynamic range. For reversal originals and prints, it?s going to have trouble capturing everything on the film, compared to a CCD. It is fast, but after a certain point, that requires significantly fast storage. They don?t appear to have a RAW capture format ? just DPX, QT/ProRes, and TIFF. RAW has a lot of advantages, both in terms of file size and future flexibility. Jeff ?just know what I read and hear? Kreines Kinetta From andreas at filmtek.no Fri Feb 12 21:31:41 2016 From: andreas at filmtek.no (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Andreas_Wider=F8e?=) Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2016 22:31:41 +0100 Subject: [Tig] Discussion of scanners In-Reply-To: <2E5E2B3F-1A0D-4ADC-9DEA-B2F6403D6DEE@cinelab.com> References: <2A6239BD-A83F-4498-AF73-64F192043772@gammaraydigital.com> <432cea3daa51d132e8f0eb67401ebab8.squirrel@mail.monkeybrains.net> <22A30F0D-0BFE-4353-B83A-9FCA0A8C0F83@gammaraydigital.com> <0de7617128ae38bd674783c9bf22ed26.squirrel@mail.monkeybrains.net> <602DDD78-29DE-4A5F-BDBB-E86DDA8EF666@mindspring.com> <56B4F087.6060704@scanbox.tv> <56BE15F8.3070209@scanbox.tv> <10FB25B8-136A-4A0B-A477-E53FBDA4799C@mindspring.com> <2E5E2B3F-1A0D-4ADC-9DEA-B2F6403D6DEE@cinelab.com> Message-ID: <370F0172-7070-4E22-89B2-4CADA1192CBB@filmtek.no> What about spectral responsitivity on these area sensors/cameras. Are there anyone better than others when it comes to analyzing the 3 layers/colours of film or do most manufacturers compensate with LED "tricks"? I remember years back when we spent some time looking into this where we on one hand had a scanner with 3 chips (linescanner) and on the other hand a few others with areascan (machine vision cameras). One these machines we always had problems separating blue and greens while on the 3 chip scanner we could pretty much do anything we wanted. /Andreas --- Filmtek AS http://www.filmtek.no Filmshooting | Com - http://www.filmshooting.com Tel: (+47) 38 17 99 16 On Feb 12, 2016, at 10:22 PM, Robert Houllahan wrote: > > > I can tell you about a few sensors/cameras used. > > There is the JAI Spark 5000 series, I believe used in the Scan Station and Kinetta. > > http://www.jai.com/en/products/sp-20000-pmcl > > We use a On-Semi Imperx 4080 in our fast Xena scanner: > > http://imperx.com/cmos-cameras/c4080/ > > And a ex-Kodak Imperx Monochrome CCD for our 5K Pin Registered Sequential RGB Xena: > > http://imperx.com/ccd-cameras/B4822/ > > > > Robert Houllahan > Scans Colorist Workflow Co-Owner > 35MM 16MM 8MM B&W/Color-Lab > Scan HD 2K-5K 8MM 16MM 35MM > Arrilaser 2K & 4K Film Recording > www.cinelab.com > > https://www.facebook.com/CinelabBoston > > From jeffkreines at mindspring.com Fri Feb 12 21:38:39 2016 From: jeffkreines at mindspring.com (Jeff Kreines - Mindspring) Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2016 15:38:39 -0600 Subject: [Tig] Discussion of scanners In-Reply-To: <2E5E2B3F-1A0D-4ADC-9DEA-B2F6403D6DEE@cinelab.com> References: <2A6239BD-A83F-4498-AF73-64F192043772@gammaraydigital.com> <432cea3daa51d132e8f0eb67401ebab8.squirrel@mail.monkeybrains.net> <22A30F0D-0BFE-4353-B83A-9FCA0A8C0F83@gammaraydigital.com> <0de7617128ae38bd674783c9bf22ed26.squirrel@mail.monkeybrains.net> <602DDD78-29DE-4A5F-BDBB-E86DDA8EF666@mindspring.com> <56B4F087.6060704@scanbox.tv> <56BE15F8.3070209@scanbox.tv> <10FB25B8-136A-4A0B-A477-E53FBDA4799C@mindspring.com> <2E5E2B3F-1A0D-4ADC-9DEA-B2F6403D6DEE@cinelab.com> Message-ID: <9FF27332-72B0-4802-8F87-8F23D3CA1678@mindspring.com> > On Feb 12, 2016, at 3:22 PM, Robert Houllahan via Tig wrote: > > Sohonet www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. > ===== > > > > > I can tell you about a few sensors/cameras used. > > There is the JAI Spark 5000 series, I believe used in the Scan Station and Kinetta. Rob! Please! We would never use the JAI Spark 5000 series! We tested one and rejected it for inadequate dynamic range. We also don?t use Imperx any more, they were difficult to deal with, as you learned, especially after John Egri died. But we do like the OnSemi/Trusense (ex-Kodak) CCDs, especially the ?5K" with big 7.4 micron pixels, which we can run at up to 12 fps at 14 bits. I heard, sadly, that another lab is closing ? the one in Colorado. Scary times. Hope you are well and that business is good. Best Jeff > > http://www.jai.com/en/products/sp-20000-pmcl > > We use a On-Semi Imperx 4080 in our fast Xena scanner: > > http://imperx.com/cmos-cameras/c4080/ > > And a ex-Kodak Imperx Monochrome CCD for our 5K Pin Registered Sequential RGB Xena: > > http://imperx.com/ccd-cameras/B4822/ > > > > Robert Houllahan > Scans Colorist Workflow Co-Owner > 35MM 16MM 8MM B&W/Color-Lab > Scan HD 2K-5K 8MM 16MM 35MM > Arrilaser 2K & 4K Film Recording > www.cinelab.com > > https://www.facebook.com/CinelabBoston > > > _______________________________________________ > http://colorist.org > To change subscription options, see http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig From jeffkreines at mindspring.com Fri Feb 12 21:38:39 2016 From: jeffkreines at mindspring.com (Jeff Kreines - Mindspring) Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2016 15:38:39 -0600 Subject: [Tig] Discussion of scanners In-Reply-To: <2E5E2B3F-1A0D-4ADC-9DEA-B2F6403D6DEE@cinelab.com> References: <2A6239BD-A83F-4498-AF73-64F192043772@gammaraydigital.com> <432cea3daa51d132e8f0eb67401ebab8.squirrel@mail.monkeybrains.net> <22A30F0D-0BFE-4353-B83A-9FCA0A8C0F83@gammaraydigital.com> <0de7617128ae38bd674783c9bf22ed26.squirrel@mail.monkeybrains.net> <602DDD78-29DE-4A5F-BDBB-E86DDA8EF666@mindspring.com> <56B4F087.6060704@scanbox.tv> <56BE15F8.3070209@scanbox.tv> <10FB25B8-136A-4A0B-A477-E53FBDA4799C@mindspring.com> <2E5E2B3F-1A0D-4ADC-9DEA-B2F6403D6DEE@cinelab.com> Message-ID: <9FF27332-72B0-4802-8F87-8F23D3CA1678@mindspring.com> > On Feb 12, 2016, at 3:22 PM, Robert Houllahan via Tig wrote: > > Sohonet www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. > ===== > > > > > I can tell you about a few sensors/cameras used. > > There is the JAI Spark 5000 series, I believe used in the Scan Station and Kinetta. Rob! Please! We would never use the JAI Spark 5000 series! We tested one and rejected it for inadequate dynamic range. We also don?t use Imperx any more, they were difficult to deal with, as you learned, especially after John Egri died. But we do like the OnSemi/Trusense (ex-Kodak) CCDs, especially the ?5K" with big 7.4 micron pixels, which we can run at up to 12 fps at 14 bits. I heard, sadly, that another lab is closing ? the one in Colorado. Scary times. Hope you are well and that business is good. Best Jeff > > http://www.jai.com/en/products/sp-20000-pmcl > > We use a On-Semi Imperx 4080 in our fast Xena scanner: > > http://imperx.com/cmos-cameras/c4080/ > > And a ex-Kodak Imperx Monochrome CCD for our 5K Pin Registered Sequential RGB Xena: > > http://imperx.com/ccd-cameras/B4822/ > > > > Robert Houllahan > Scans Colorist Workflow Co-Owner > 35MM 16MM 8MM B&W/Color-Lab > Scan HD 2K-5K 8MM 16MM 35MM > Arrilaser 2K & 4K Film Recording > www.cinelab.com > > https://www.facebook.com/CinelabBoston > > > _______________________________________________ > http://colorist.org > To change subscription options, see http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig From rob at cinelab.com Sat Feb 13 02:48:19 2016 From: rob at cinelab.com (rob at cinelab.com) Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2016 21:48:19 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Discussion of scanners In-Reply-To: <9FF27332-72B0-4802-8F87-8F23D3CA1678@mindspring.com> References: <2A6239BD-A83F-4498-AF73-64F192043772@gammaraydigital.com> <432cea3daa51d132e8f0eb67401ebab8.squirrel@mail.monkeybrains.net> <22A30F0D-0BFE-4353-B83A-9FCA0A8C0F83@gammaraydigital.com> <0de7617128ae38bd674783c9bf22ed26.squirrel@mail.monkeybrains.net> <602DDD78-29DE-4A5F-BDBB-E86DDA8EF666@mindspring.com> <56B4F087.6060704@scanbox.tv> <56BE15F8.3070209@scanbox.tv> <10FB25B8-136A-4A0B-A477-E53FBDA4799C@mindspring.com> <2E5E2B3F-1A0D-4ADC-9DEA-B2F6403D6DEE@cinelab.com> <9FF27332-72B0-4802-8F87-8F23D3CA1678@mindspring.com> Message-ID: > > Rob! Please! We would never use the JAI Spark 5000 series! We tested one and rejected it for inadequate dynamic range. Sorry my mistake. > > We also don?t use Imperx any more, they were difficult to deal with, as you learned, especially after John Egri died. But we do like the OnSemi/Trusense (ex-Kodak) CCDs, especially the ?5K" with big 7.4 micron pixels, which we can run at up to 12 fps at 14 bits. I am using the 7.4u 14-bit on the Pin Reg Xena machine. > > I heard, sadly, that another lab is closing ? the one in Colorado. Scary times. Hope you are well and that business is good. That sucks, we are still going and being the New England cheapskate die hards we are I don?t see any reason to stop. Robert Houllahan Scans Colorist Workflow Co-Owner 35MM 16MM 8MM B&W/Color-Lab Scan HD 2K-5K 8MM 16MM 35MM Arrilaser 2K & 4K Film Recording www.cinelab.com https://www.facebook.com/CinelabBoston From rob at cinelab.com Sat Feb 13 02:48:19 2016 From: rob at cinelab.com (rob at cinelab.com) Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2016 21:48:19 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Discussion of scanners In-Reply-To: <9FF27332-72B0-4802-8F87-8F23D3CA1678@mindspring.com> References: <2A6239BD-A83F-4498-AF73-64F192043772@gammaraydigital.com> <432cea3daa51d132e8f0eb67401ebab8.squirrel@mail.monkeybrains.net> <22A30F0D-0BFE-4353-B83A-9FCA0A8C0F83@gammaraydigital.com> <0de7617128ae38bd674783c9bf22ed26.squirrel@mail.monkeybrains.net> <602DDD78-29DE-4A5F-BDBB-E86DDA8EF666@mindspring.com> <56B4F087.6060704@scanbox.tv> <56BE15F8.3070209@scanbox.tv> <10FB25B8-136A-4A0B-A477-E53FBDA4799C@mindspring.com> <2E5E2B3F-1A0D-4ADC-9DEA-B2F6403D6DEE@cinelab.com> <9FF27332-72B0-4802-8F87-8F23D3CA1678@mindspring.com> Message-ID: > > Rob! Please! We would never use the JAI Spark 5000 series! We tested one and rejected it for inadequate dynamic range. Sorry my mistake. > > We also don?t use Imperx any more, they were difficult to deal with, as you learned, especially after John Egri died. But we do like the OnSemi/Trusense (ex-Kodak) CCDs, especially the ?5K" with big 7.4 micron pixels, which we can run at up to 12 fps at 14 bits. I am using the 7.4u 14-bit on the Pin Reg Xena machine. > > I heard, sadly, that another lab is closing ? the one in Colorado. Scary times. Hope you are well and that business is good. That sucks, we are still going and being the New England cheapskate die hards we are I don?t see any reason to stop. Robert Houllahan Scans Colorist Workflow Co-Owner 35MM 16MM 8MM B&W/Color-Lab Scan HD 2K-5K 8MM 16MM 35MM Arrilaser 2K & 4K Film Recording www.cinelab.com https://www.facebook.com/CinelabBoston From rob at cinelab.com Sat Feb 13 02:58:54 2016 From: rob at cinelab.com (Robert Houllahan) Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2016 21:58:54 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Discussion of scanners In-Reply-To: <370F0172-7070-4E22-89B2-4CADA1192CBB@filmtek.no> References: <2A6239BD-A83F-4498-AF73-64F192043772@gammaraydigital.com> <432cea3daa51d132e8f0eb67401ebab8.squirrel@mail.monkeybrains.net> <22A30F0D-0BFE-4353-B83A-9FCA0A8C0F83@gammaraydigital.com> <0de7617128ae38bd674783c9bf22ed26.squirrel@mail.monkeybrains.net> <602DDD78-29DE-4A5F-BDBB-E86DDA8EF666@mindspring.com> <56B4F087.6060704@scanbox.tv> <56BE15F8.3070209@scanbox.tv> <10FB25B8-136A-4A0B-A477-E53FBDA4799C@mindspring.com> <2E5E2B3F-1A0D-4ADC-9DEA-B2F6403D6DEE@cinelab.com> <370F0172-7070-4E22-89B2-4CADA1192CBB@filmtek.no> Message-ID: <10801BF7-6FD6-4FE6-B11A-B053FDA72405@cinelab.com> > What about spectral responsitivity on these area sensors/cameras. Are there anyone better than others when it comes to analyzing the 3 layers/colours of film or do most manufacturers compensate with LED "tricks?? I think the CRI of LEDs are better these days. > > I remember years back when we spent some time looking into this where we on one hand had a scanner with 3 chips (linescanner) and on the other hand a few others with areascan (machine vision cameras). One these machines we always had problems separating blue and greens while on the 3 chip scanner we could pretty much do anything we wanted. We have both a Xena capstan drive 4K 12-bit Bayer sensor RGB LED scanner and a Xena Pin Registered Monochrome Area sensor 5K 14bit machine with Sequential RGB and IR LED illumination. We also have an Imager-XE line scan machine. Both Xena machines use the same RGB+IR LED lamp with very good LEDs that have great spectral response for their color, the Current and duration of each R,G,B and IR color can be controlled in software, also the LED controller has two sets of resistors to match Negative and Positives better initially. Sequential RGB does have better color than Bayer ( IMO ) each color record is totally seperate and scanned at the full resolution, Bayer color is always reconstructed in math, the ex-Kodak Bayer CCDs are better in color rendition than the CMOS sensors, also IMO. People want fast scans though. Robert Houllahan Scans Colorist Workflow Co-Owner 35MM 16MM 8MM B&W/Color-Lab Scan HD 2K-5K 8MM 16MM 35MM Arrilaser 2K & 4K Film Recording www.cinelab.com https://www.facebook.com/CinelabBoston From rob at cinelab.com Sat Feb 13 02:58:54 2016 From: rob at cinelab.com (Robert Houllahan) Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2016 21:58:54 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Discussion of scanners In-Reply-To: <370F0172-7070-4E22-89B2-4CADA1192CBB@filmtek.no> References: <2A6239BD-A83F-4498-AF73-64F192043772@gammaraydigital.com> <432cea3daa51d132e8f0eb67401ebab8.squirrel@mail.monkeybrains.net> <22A30F0D-0BFE-4353-B83A-9FCA0A8C0F83@gammaraydigital.com> <0de7617128ae38bd674783c9bf22ed26.squirrel@mail.monkeybrains.net> <602DDD78-29DE-4A5F-BDBB-E86DDA8EF666@mindspring.com> <56B4F087.6060704@scanbox.tv> <56BE15F8.3070209@scanbox.tv> <10FB25B8-136A-4A0B-A477-E53FBDA4799C@mindspring.com> <2E5E2B3F-1A0D-4ADC-9DEA-B2F6403D6DEE@cinelab.com> <370F0172-7070-4E22-89B2-4CADA1192CBB@filmtek.no> Message-ID: <10801BF7-6FD6-4FE6-B11A-B053FDA72405@cinelab.com> > What about spectral responsitivity on these area sensors/cameras. Are there anyone better than others when it comes to analyzing the 3 layers/colours of film or do most manufacturers compensate with LED "tricks?? I think the CRI of LEDs are better these days. > > I remember years back when we spent some time looking into this where we on one hand had a scanner with 3 chips (linescanner) and on the other hand a few others with areascan (machine vision cameras). One these machines we always had problems separating blue and greens while on the 3 chip scanner we could pretty much do anything we wanted. We have both a Xena capstan drive 4K 12-bit Bayer sensor RGB LED scanner and a Xena Pin Registered Monochrome Area sensor 5K 14bit machine with Sequential RGB and IR LED illumination. We also have an Imager-XE line scan machine. Both Xena machines use the same RGB+IR LED lamp with very good LEDs that have great spectral response for their color, the Current and duration of each R,G,B and IR color can be controlled in software, also the LED controller has two sets of resistors to match Negative and Positives better initially. Sequential RGB does have better color than Bayer ( IMO ) each color record is totally seperate and scanned at the full resolution, Bayer color is always reconstructed in math, the ex-Kodak Bayer CCDs are better in color rendition than the CMOS sensors, also IMO. People want fast scans though. Robert Houllahan Scans Colorist Workflow Co-Owner 35MM 16MM 8MM B&W/Color-Lab Scan HD 2K-5K 8MM 16MM 35MM Arrilaser 2K & 4K Film Recording www.cinelab.com https://www.facebook.com/CinelabBoston From martin at image-eyes.com Tue Feb 16 19:07:04 2016 From: martin at image-eyes.com (Martin Parsons) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2016 19:07:04 +0000 Subject: [Tig] Film color response in 3x3 matrix In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Stepan Good question. Film stocks can be profiled. However because of the interaction between emulsion layers as light passes through, the RGB profile can't be represented by a simple 3x3 matrix. For example, pure blue light passing through film will be registered by the blue sensitive layer but there will be some effect on the green and red sensitive layers too. So the individual emulsion layers do not 'decouple' from each other, i.e. act totally independently from each other. So film profiles are generally in the form of a 3D LUT. In order to not advertise I can put you in touch offline with somebody who profiles film stock. All the best Martin Martin Parsons Image Eyes Ltd. +44 7800 968 791 martin at image-eyes.com www.image-eyes.com On 8 February 2016 at 15:09, CML Ko via Tig wrote: > Sohonet www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. > ===== > > > Hello Tig'ers > > I'm a long time reader but a first time poster on this list, so go easy on > me! So here is my potentially silly question: is there a way of profiling a > specific film stock and deriving a 3x3 matrix that would represent the > filmstocks color rendition? Kind of like an emulation lut but in a form of > a 3x3 matrix that has to be applied to linearized footage? > > The second question is how would I go about doing that on a budget? I > mostly do shortform color work and I very much doubt my company would be > interested in paying for any research and development and big boy > solutions, so any costs would be paid for by me. > > Hope this makes sence! > > All the best > > Stepan > _______________________________________________ > http://colorist.org > To change subscription options, see > http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig > From david at dcvideo.com Wed Feb 17 17:45:04 2016 From: david at dcvideo.com (David Crosthwait) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2016 09:45:04 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Discussion of scanners In-Reply-To: References: <2A6239BD-A83F-4498-AF73-64F192043772@gammaraydigital.com> <432cea3daa51d132e8f0eb67401ebab8.squirrel@mail.monkeybrains.net> <22A30F0D-0BFE-4353-B83A-9FCA0A8C0F83@gammaraydigital.com> <0de7617128ae38bd674783c9bf22ed26.squirrel@mail.monkeybrains.net> <602DDD78-29DE-4A5F-BDBB-E86DDA8EF666@mindspring.com> <56B4F087.6060704@scanbox.tv> <56BE15F8.3070209@scanbox.tv> <10FB25B8-136A-4A0B-A477-E53FBDA4799C@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <472290AE-A3C4-4E44-88C4-DB57A4AA2A84@dcvideo.com> > "What cameras/sensors are in the MWA scanners?" My TIG mail is sometimes sporadic incoming so I may have missed the answer. The other responders have been very forthcoming with their data but I may have missed the information on the MWA. Thank you. Regards, David Crosthwait DC Video Transferring NTSC, PAL & SECAM Two Inch Quad and Helical Source Tapes (and More)! david at dcvideo.com www.dcvideo.com Follow DC Video on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dcvideo Follow DC Video on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/dcvideoonline On Feb 12, 2016, at 1:03 PM, Andreas Wider?e via Tig wrote: > Sohonet www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. > ===== > > > Ted, what cameras/sensors are in the MWA scanners? > > And does anyone know what's in the Scanstation? > > /Andreas > > --- > Filmtek AS > http://www.filmtek.no > > Filmshooting | Com - http://www.filmshooting.com > > Tel: (+47) 38 17 99 16 > > On Feb 12, 2016, at 8:20 PM, Jeff Kreines - Mindspring via Tig wrote: > >> Sohonet www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. >> ===== >> From tedlangdell at gmail.com Thu Feb 18 18:46:48 2016 From: tedlangdell at gmail.com (Ted Langdell) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2016 10:46:48 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Discussion of scanners In-Reply-To: <472290AE-A3C4-4E44-88C4-DB57A4AA2A84@dcvideo.com> References: <2A6239BD-A83F-4498-AF73-64F192043772@gammaraydigital.com> <432cea3daa51d132e8f0eb67401ebab8.squirrel@mail.monkeybrains.net> <22A30F0D-0BFE-4353-B83A-9FCA0A8C0F83@gammaraydigital.com> <0de7617128ae38bd674783c9bf22ed26.squirrel@mail.monkeybrains.net> <602DDD78-29DE-4A5F-BDBB-E86DDA8EF666@mindspring.com> <56B4F087.6060704@scanbox.tv> <56BE15F8.3070209@scanbox.tv> <10FB25B8-136A-4A0B-A477-E53FBDA4799C@mindspring.com> <472290AE-A3C4-4E44-88C4-DB57A4AA2A84@dcvideo.com> Message-ID: <910A3992-8DE0-4759-96E1-9A588BCE7CD4@gmail.com> Hi, David, You can check the TIG archives to see whether you?ve missed something. Search: http://tig.colorist.org/cgi-bin/swish.cgi Recent: http://tig.colorist.org/pipermail/tig/ February by thread: http://tig.colorist.org/pipermail/tig/2016-February/thread.html#22268 In fairness, you might note that there have not been any direct responses from most other scanner manufacturers or their sales representatives. I?ve asked the factory for guidance regarding what additional information I can post about the specific sensor/camera packages. Currently, five different sensor/camera packages are used in MWA's three product lines: The small-gauge flashscanHD, compact Choice and mid-sized Vario scanners. The widely used flashscanHD 8mm/Super8 (w/9.5 option) unit has been shipping since 2009. It uses a Hitachi three-chip CMOS 1280 x 720p/50 4:2:2 HD-SDI camera enabling 50fps scanning?a breakthrough at the time?and still a valuable tool for our consumer-film transfer business users. Recent models shipped with the same operating software as the Choice and Vario, so moving from one MWA machine to another is less of a learning curve and more intuitive. The flashscanHD has just been augmented with a recently available 1920 x 1080 sensor/camera package that I?m advised offers some noticeable improvements. I?m anticipating some further details and sample footage soon. Upgrades are possible from the three-chip unit. The new sensor/camera also offers 50fps scanning for situations where that?s useful and film permits. The Choice and Vario lines share the 2K Plus? 2336 x 1732 CCD and 4K Plus? 4096 x 3072 CMOS cameras (both RGB 12-bits per color.) The Vario can also be fitted with a 16-bit per color, low noise, 2560 x 2160 High Dynamic Range sensor that?s real time. Users have been quite pleased with the results. Upgrades from current to newer sensor/camera packages can be done as the opportunity arises. Handling additional data can require a change in processing power, which might be as simple as faster storage, or it may need additional horsepower in the GPU cards and/or workstation being used. Depends on what the customer has in use at the time the upgrade is performed. MWA has tried and rejected a number of sensor/camera packages. MWA?s investigation of sensors resulted in more choice of sensor/camera packages. As several other posters have alluded to, scanner manufacturers are constrained by the sensors on the market at a given time, how they are packaged by third-parties into cameras, how those can be successfully mounted in/on scanners and made to work in film scanning with the software development kits (SDKs) available from the camera vendors? and the results obtained when applied to film scanning. What can make a difference when using a specific sensor or camera is the light source, along with the post-sensor and/or post camera processing that can be devised for the incoming data. MWA pioneered the use of flashed (pulsed) multiple R-G-B LED arrays in film scanning in 2004, and in 2008/09, developed its patented laser-based perf detection system used on all its current scanners. The LEDs used for each color are narrow enough in bandwidth to minimize color crosstalk at wavelengths where the film dye density curves overlap and where camera color separation filter curves overlap. That helps keep chroma noise low and delivers a well saturated image requiring only a little correction during internal processing for color space conversion. Hope this is helpful. Ted Ted Langdell flashscan8.us Moving Image Tool and Technology Store iPhone: (530) 301-2931 (Preferred) Office: (530) 741-1212 ted at flashscan8.us Skype: TedLangdell See us at NAB 2016, April 18-21, Lower South Hall Booth SL14813. Free exhibit pass code LV3654 can now be used for registration. On Feb 17, 2016, at 9:45 AM, David Crosthwait via Tig wrote: > Sohonet www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. > ===== > > >> "What cameras/sensors are in the MWA scanners?" > > > My TIG mail is sometimes sporadic incoming so I may have missed the answer. The other responders have been very forthcoming with their data but I may have missed the information on the MWA. > > Thank you. > > > Regards, > > David Crosthwait > DC Video > Transferring NTSC, PAL & SECAM Two Inch Quad and Helical Source Tapes (and More)! > > david at dcvideo.com > www.dcvideo.com > > Follow DC Video on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dcvideo > Follow DC Video on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/dcvideoonline > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 12, 2016, at 1:03 PM, Andreas Wider?e via Tig wrote: > >> Sohonet www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. >> ===== >> >> >> Ted, what cameras/sensors are in the MWA scanners? >> >> And does anyone know what's in the Scanstation? >> >> /Andreas >> >> --- >> Filmtek AS >> http://www.filmtek.no >> >> Filmshooting | Com - http://www.filmshooting.com >> >> Tel: (+47) 38 17 99 16 >> >> On Feb 12, 2016, at 8:20 PM, Jeff Kreines - Mindspring via Tig wrote: >> >>> Sohonet www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. >>> ===== >>> > > _______________________________________________ > http://colorist.org > To change subscription options, see http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig From rob at colorist.org Thu Feb 18 22:56:49 2016 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2016 16:56:49 -0600 Subject: [Tig] TIG searching, archives (was: Re: Discussion of scanners) In-Reply-To: <910A3992-8DE0-4759-96E1-9A588BCE7CD4@gmail.com> References: <2A6239BD-A83F-4498-AF73-64F192043772@gammaraydigital.com> <432cea3daa51d132e8f0eb67401ebab8.squirrel@mail.monkeybrains.net> <22A30F0D-0BFE-4353-B83A-9FCA0A8C0F83@gammaraydigital.com> <0de7617128ae38bd674783c9bf22ed26.squirrel@mail.monkeybrains.net> <602DDD78-29DE-4A5F-BDBB-E86DDA8EF666@mindspring.com> <56B4F087.6060704@scanbox.tv> <56BE15F8.3070209@scanbox.tv> <10FB25B8-136A-4A0B-A477-E53FBDA4799C@mindspring.com> <472290AE-A3C4-4E44-88C4-DB57A4AA2A84@dcvideo.com> <910A3992-8DE0-4759-96E1-9A588BCE7CD4@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Feb 18, 2016, at 12:46 PM, Ted Langdell via Tig wrote: > Sohonet www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. > ===== > > > Hi, David, > > You can check the TIG archives to see whether you?ve missed something. > > Search: http://tig.colorist.org/cgi-bin/swish.cgi > > Recent: http://tig.colorist.org/pipermail/tig/ > > February by thread: http://tig.colorist.org/pipermail/tig/2016-February/thread.html#22268 Thank you for posting those links Ted, also for the detailed response. Periodically the TIG archives are reindexed for the search functions periodically, depending on posting traffic or volume*. I've just run the reindex manually. Rob (* volume is currently set with no automatic or even manual gain control, and self-equalized.) -- TIG admin, founder; 25 years in 2016 Rob Lingelbach roblingelbach at icloud.com http://lingelbach.us