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Re: archive help
> From David Henegar <David_Henegar at dbcadv.com>
> They say that there is no such thing as a dumb question,
> I'm going to test that statement with this message!
I _have_ gotten some dumb questions but these are interesting enough to
reply via the group so that these professionals can criticize my responses
and so that our clients can use this information.
> ... My question is: When editing a commercial
> where two scenes are superimposed over each other, what is the best way
> to telecine both shots to the final color corrected master reel, seeing
> as how both shots will have the same record timecode numbers? What is the
> typical way of transferring in this situation that would work best for the
> on-liner who will be reconforming?
I have to read some conditions into this question so correct me if I make a
wrong assumption about what you are asking.
If you want two scenes DX'ed together that might have the same timecode,
can I assume that this is an effect where the identical source material is
used in the super? Off line systems often create this situation and it is
commonly referred to as B-Roll material. This term comes from the old
on-line practice of duplicating a section of material on to another reel
(of work stock) to allow a second source of the same material to be
available during an edit. Nonlinear EDLs sometimes provide explicit
documentation for this requirement and sometimes the editor has to sift
through the list to find it and handle it in the session. It gets handled
in various ways that are specific to the facility and the equipment that is
going to do the online. Sometimes a B-Roll is made (likely to be a digital
"clone" these days), sometimes a disk recorder is used either manually or
as part of a cache system and sometimes the online equipment is a Quantel
Henry or EditBox where it doesn't matter.
I also assume that you are editing from source material transferred in one
session and then going back to transfer for selects to your color corrected
master reel. If you are following the convention that source reels all have
different, unique timecodes and the selects are transferred to the master
with matching codes, you may have a situation where source material needs
to be corrected as two different passes (B/W and color or in focus and
out.) That type of pickup scene is often identified to the colorist and the
alternative versions recorded to another tape to be used as a B-Roll.
Alternative takes on the B-Roll can be offset by a simple timecode amount
and the online editor will trim the elements and rename reels in the online
EDL to use these scenes. Alternative takes can be recorded on the master
reel with a documented timecode offset and the online system will deal with
this as above after adding an offset to the source times as you provide
You are best advised to ask your online editor for preferences before the
final telecine session and ask the telecine operators for advice in
organizing the materials. Facilities and operators have slightly different
ways they are used to dealing with this and you can simplify their jobs by
following their advice. If you can't prepare to spec, be very thorough in
your documentation and allow for some online preparation time to modify the
EDL and prepare sources. It is a common requirement in online sessions and
it is your money when the clock is ticking.
> My second question is: When you telecine a
> sync sound scene to a final D2 master, for instance,
> for reconforming, is it necessary
> to go back to the DAT or 1/4" Nagra in the sound mixing stage for the
> final conforming of sync audio?
> Or is it more than adequate to use the sync sound
> from the D2 on the final on-line.
A quality recording of your original source to digital tape will let you
use that for all later sound processes. Sometimes the original transfer
reels are used for audio sources and the master color corrected tape can be
MOS to save time in the telecine session. Sometimes the source reels are
played in sync with the master as it is recording final selects and the
audio copied (digital, we hope) to the master for use online. You lose the
access to alternate audio takes that don't correspond to video selected
Another method is to request that a digital audio tape be created from your
sources in the telecine session while transferring to video. The timecode
from the video reels is recorded to the digital audio tape so you don't
deal with production audio timecodes any further in the post process. This
is a method that allows you to get digital audio when your recordings are
to video tape that doesn't have digital audio tracks (BetaSP for example.)
Someone in the telecine group will contest this, I am sure, but this is not
a recommended way to go. My experience is telecine sessions that attempt to
record to DAT or DA-88 have many problems with the machine controllers. It
is really a bad way to spend your money. You get more value by recording to
D-2 or digiBeta and using the audio tracks as you propose.
The executive summary for this chapter is:
1. Duplicate source material is not much of a problem in modern online if
everyone knows what is happening. Follow the advice of your online editor.
2. Digital audio tracks on VTRs mean you only have to go back to the
production audio medium in an emergency. It can also simplify your list
management and audio sweetening sessions. Do it.
--- David Tosh dlt at earthlink.net (CIS 72167,1376)
--- Video Engineer, Complete Post, Hollywood