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TIG crippled? (was: CML: Recent)

On Mar 22, 19:23, Jeff Kreines wrote:
} Subject: CML: Recent comments re TIG - a response

> Rob, please get your facts straight here.  I purchased two pieces of 
> equipment through the TIG classifieds.  The selling parties were 
> supposed 

I dispute strongly that version of the events, but submit that we take
this off the mailinglists, and if possible settle it privately.

> But I still think that the wall you have erected makes it difficult 
> to discuss some things openly.  I think the CML is much looser, and 
> therefore better,  in that regard.  But that is just my opinion.

If the TIG subscribers want to change the way the group operates, it
is certainly possible.  Yours is, currently, the only complaint I've

> I am not sure what is different -- I quoted you without your 
> permission and posted it to the CML.  You quoted me without my 
> permission and posted it to the TIG and CML.  Does that mean that 
> Geoff should kick you off of the CML? 

there's a fine line here, but I'll explain.  My quoting of you to the
CML is accepted practice because you posted to the CML.  My quoting of
you to the TIG, on the other hand, can be construed as an affront,
though, for which I apologize.  However, you were and are currently
subscribed to the TIG as JSnopes at aol.com, so any quoting of your posts
to the TIG are sent also to you.  Your quoting of me to the CML last
year was 'in the blind' (I had no way of knowing about it) and the
quoting took me completely out of context, portraying my words as
negative toward cinematographers, which they weren't intended to be.

> No, because I believe that a free interchange of ideas (even when 
> heated) is better than censorship through over-moderation.

you have a right to your opinion.  But perhaps the TIG succeeds, with
its high signal to noise ratio, because of the level of moderation.

> Ah, I've been outed.  I can stop living a double life.  Most TIG 
> members knew it immediately.  

most did not and were deceived.

> as if it was on the TIG) was very good detective work.  It was 
> entrapment worthy of Linda Tripp and Kenneth Starr.  

please!  that hurts :].  I only used your own guerilla tactics to
catch you.

> While Snopes was hiding behind a nom-de-web to gain access to the 
> TIG, I don't see that any of his posts were deceptive in any way 

As I said, there's a difference between anonymity and impersonation,
particularly when that impersonation has an agenda.  The net, web, and
mailinglists are published media, for which the moderator/editor holds
a responsibility, to subscribers, to the extent possible.

> You grew 
> up in a different, more repressive era, and believe that the TIG 
> should read like the SMPTE Journal.  It's too bad you've created 
> a great forum but keep crippling it.

I submit to the subscribers of the TIG an open call for comments on
whether they think the TIG is 'crippled'.

> Your members are smart enough to decide for themselves who to believe =
> and who to distrust.  They don't need to be told.

some are, some aren't.  In any case, if we threw it open to marketing,
the noise level would jump.  There is an approved medium, the
-announce group, which was created in discussion with you, for which
you are credited on the TIG webpages.

> But in the future, if you choose rehash the above tale, please get 
> your facts straight.

I have the facts here, and do not rescind what I've said.. but do
submit that we limit discussion on the TIG to matters relevant to the
TIG, telecine, or Mike Orton's ability to quaff.

Rob Lingelbach          |  2660 Hollyridge Dr., Los Angeles, CA 90068
rob at alegria.com         |"I care not much for a man's religion whose dog or 
rob at info.com            |  cat is not the better for it."  --Abraham Lincoln
rob at teklab.com                    KB6CUN   http://www.alegria.com

Thanks to Peter Stansfield for supporting the TIG in 1998..
No product marketing allowed on the main TIG.  Contact rob at alegria.com
956 subscribers in 36 countries on Sun Mar 22 20:18:25 PST 1998 
complete information on the TIG website http://www.alegria.com/tig3/